Disable F3 view

[humble]

Personally I could care less but i'm curious about the underlying issue. F3 view has no value (IMO) in any type of a fight. While it does have some significant value with regard to SA that will only really prevent a bounce. So is the issue I cant sneak up on someone like I think I should be able to (a valid point possibly) or a feeling that F3 view is somehow an edge in an actual fight (which IMO its not)...

[shreck]

Personally I could care less but i'm curious about the underlying issue. F3 view has no value (IMO) in any type of a fight. While it does have some significant value with regard to SA that will only really prevent a bounce. So is the issue I cant sneak up on someone like I think I should be able to (a valid point possibly) or a feeling that F3 view is somehow an edge in an actual fight (which IMO its not)...

Well it is an edge! Imo it is far less work to maintain "far better" SA in F3. Also it is imo "asteroids mode" just turning part of the game into lame shooter category! Not to mention allowing a bomber to have far superior visibilty than any fighter in the game is quite silly. The proof could be in the pudding,  IF F3 were dsabled for 1 tour the stats for IL2s and A20s would be dramatically worse "proof of the lameness of F3

Any plane with F6 bombing view should be the only ones with F3 capability  IMHO

Oh lets not forget about the twirling, looping D3As in fighter town, all using F3 view  lol ! also very lame.  Hehe FUN !  but quite pathetic and lame!

Also, please please disable F3 in the DA 

[Widewing]

Well it is an edge, Imo it is far less work to maintain "far better" SA in F3. Also it is imo "asteroids mode" just turning part of the game into lame shooter category! Not to mention allowing a bomber to have far superior visibilty than any fighter in the game is quite silly. The proof could be in the pudding,  IF F3 were dsabled for 1 tour the stats for IL2s and A20s would be dramatically worse "proof of the lameness of F

Any plane with F6 bombing view should be the only ones with F3 capability  IMHO

Oh lets not forget about the twirling, looping D3As in fighter town, all using F3 view  lol ! also very lame.  Hehe FUN !  but quite pathetic and lame!

Also, please please disable F3 in the DA 

Quite frankly, you gents haven't quite figured out why F3 exists....

Aircraft with multiple crew benefited from their vision. Aircraft like the IL-2 have virtually no rear view. They are easy to kill now, how much more of an advantage do you need? Ditto for the A-20 and Boston.

Any aircraft with no rearward vision and multiple crew should have the F3 option.

Disable bombing from F3? Absolutely.

But, to make pilots who fly those aircraft blind is not a solution at all. It seems to me that we have a substantial number of guys who have been waxed by A-20s and IL-2s and feel they must blame something other than their own ineptitude. If you are in a fighter and can't beat an A-20 or and IL-2... The problem is you, not F3.


My regards,

Widewing

[cobia38]

 
 hehe this is a cute thread    anyone who thinks that f3 makes a il2 or A20 a superior ride is lost in space
   i dont fly il2 but i fly A20, probly more then anyone else in this game. and i never dogfight in f3 mode. it is compleatly wothless for dogfighting. a good set of headphones is all you need to let you know wher enemy plane is when you cant see them. i do use it when cruising to scope for targets and to check my 6 but for dogfighting NO .  but  i totally agree on disabling the bomb release,and firing of guns when in f3 i think that would help 

[Krusty]

I say just disable it for single-engined planes.

[Delirium]

How about allowing F3 mode only when on autopilot (straight and level or autoclimb) and it turns off if the guns are fired, even if you are on autopilot.

This will mimic a bomber crew without allowing the gamey crap to go on.

[Rebel]

A very clear line hasn't been established here yet.

Apparently, many people don't get the original purpose of the thread.

What it is NOT about is "uber" IL2's and their incredible dogfighting ability.

What it IS about is arcade whack-a-mole gameplay brought on by some aircraft spawning and being used as fighters that really, in all honesty, have no business being up at that point in time.

NOBODY claimed the IL2 was impossible to bring down, or even difficult for that matter.  It's when you get a dozen of them free wheeling around as point defense fighters that it gets to the point of being absolutely ridiculous.

Without the F3 view, this would cease to be an issue- guaranteed.  

Maybe it's not the correct fix, but it sure seems like a legitimate gameplay issue is being discounted by people claiming it as a "whine" by "crybabies who suck".    

[Delirium]

It's when you get a dozen of them free wheeling around as point defense fighters that it gets to the point of being absolutely ridiculous.

Many mediocre historic and modern aircraft would (and still do) 'wheel' around in a Luftberry to intice fighters to come join the circle. Even a pack of Vals can be vicious if you play their game...

If you think that is bad, wait until the Beaufighter comes around. I can't wait to see the forums when that happens.

[Larry]

A very clear line hasn't been established here yet.

Apparently, many people don't get the original purpose of the thread.

What it is NOT about is "uber" IL2's and their incredible dogfighting ability.

What it IS about is arcade whack-a-mole gameplay brought on by some aircraft spawning and being used as fighters that really, in all honesty, have no business being up at that point in time.

NOBODY claimed the IL2 was impossible to bring down, or even difficult for that matter.  It's when you get a dozen of them free wheeling around as point defense fighters that it gets to the point of being absolutely ridiculous.

Without the F3 view, this would cease to be an issue- guaranteed.  

Maybe it's not the correct fix, but it sure seems like a legitimate gameplay issue is being discounted by people claiming it as a "whine" by "crybabies who suck".    

Um yes this thead and the origanal post was about how people don't know how to attack a plane and get owned by it when they blow their pass. Those who want them disabled pretty much are "whining cry babies who suck" and disabling the F3 wont wont fix you getting shot down by Il2s because last time I looked the big guns fire forward where theres a big windshield they has a great view of exploding tards.

[Rebel]

Um yes this thead and the origanal post was about how people don't know how to attack a plane and get owned by it when they blow their pass. Those who want them disabled pretty much are "whining cry babies who suck" and disabling the F3 wont wont fix you getting shot down by Il2s because last time I looked the big guns fire forward where theres a big windshield they has a great view of exploding tards.

According to who?

Who said shooting down IL2's was hard?  Who complained of being shot down by an IL2?

[Widewing]

A very clear line hasn't been established here yet.

Apparently, many people don't get the original purpose of the thread.

But it is a whine thread, make no mistake about that.

What it is NOT about is "uber" IL2's and their incredible dogfighting ability.

What it IS about is arcade whack-a-mole gameplay brought on by some aircraft spawning and being used as fighters that really, in all honesty, have no business being up at that point in time.

So, P-38s strafing Spitfires on the runway is less arcade than trying to get airborne in an IL-2? Why do you think they take IL-2s?
1) The fighter hangers are down.
2) IL-2s can survive a vulching pass, Spitfires will not.

If players want to defend their field with the best available option, why deny them that by making them blind to the rear. They weren't blind to the rear in RL, they had a gunner who would report what he was seeing, oh and he would be shooting too. That's something you can't do unless flying level, and who would fly level in that environment? So, those flying the IL-2 are handicapped to some degree. Why not ask for AI operated rear guns if you don't want them to see behind? Yep, an AI death laser in the back of the IL-2 would start a dozen more whine threads. Same thing for A-20s and Bostons. These are actually missing the ventral gun, which would protect their low 6 O'clock. Give them their missing gun and let it aimed and fired by AI.

NOBODY claimed the IL2 was impossible to bring down, or even difficult for that matter.  It's when you get a dozen of them free wheeling around as point defense fighters that it gets to the point of being absolutely ridiculous.

Without the F3 view, this would cease to be an issue- guaranteed.

What issue? There's no real issue, is there. That is, other than whining about a dozen IL-2s defending their base. I find that to be an opportunity rather than a problem.


My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

How about allowing F3 mode only when on autopilot (straight and level or autoclimb) and it turns off if the guns are fired, even if you are on autopilot.

This will mimic a bomber crew without allowing the gamey crap to go on.

Actually Del, the bomber crew wouldn't stop reporting enemy location, even if maneuvering. I'm all for restricting bombing from F3 as this is the real negative effect towards the game.


My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

What does the rear gunner have to do with forcing over-shoots?  The pilot and the rear gunner offer the IL-2 its 360d view (almsot) from side to side and up, it shouldnt be able to look as freely as it does below the aircraft as it can w/ the F3 view.  The IL-2 is a flying tank, it is well armored and as such the downside to that should be the reduced capabilty to see all around like a fighter (or a bomber in F3 mode). 

Oh, and the IL-2 isnt a level bomber, it is an attack aircraft meant for low level strikes vs armor and static defensive positions.

I know what bombers have the F3 view and the IL-2 not only doesnt need it but it also doesnt deserve it, especially since it is flown like a zeke as you so graciously have pointed out.  Perhaps maybe you can tell us why bombers have the F3 capable views?  Lets see jsut how informed you really are.   

Listen ladies, stop referring to the gunner position as one for viewing behind. You cannot maneuver and be in the gunner position at the same time. Thus, F3 simulates the gunner's view and allows the pilot to maneuver the aircraft.

What is so hard about that to understand?

And, why are you guys so terrified by a 270 mph, poor turning lump of steel? No need to answer, I already know.


My regards,

Widewing

[Rebel]

But it is a whine thread, make no mistake about that.

Funny- I didn't see it as such.

So, P-38s strafing Spitfires on the runway is less arcade than trying to get airborne in an IL-2? Why do you think they take IL-2s?
1) The fighter hangers are down.
2) IL-2s can survive a vulching pass, Spitfires will not.

If players want to defend their field with the best available option, why deny them that by making them blind to the rear. They weren't blind to the rear in RL, they had a gunner who would report what he was seeing, oh and he would be shooting too. That's something you can't do unless flying level, and who would fly level in that environment? So, those flying the IL-2 are handicapped to some degree. Why not ask for AI operated rear guns if you don't want them to see behind? Yep, an AI death laser in the back of the IL-2 would start a dozen more whine threads. Same thing for A-20s and Bostons. These are actually missing the ventral gun, which would protect their low 6 O'clock. Give them their missing gun and let it aimed and fired by AI.
What issue? There's no real issue, is there. That is, other than whining about a dozen IL-2s defending their base. I find that to be an opportunity rather than a problem.

Actually, I believe that IL2's upping by the dozen is EXTREMELY more arcadish then a bunch of Spitfires upping because Spitfires acutally had a history of doing just that in the Battle of Britain.  Maybe no Spit XIV or XVI's, but still!

Fact of the matter is, IL2's are being upped as point defense interceptors and being used as such, and in my opinion, that's EXTREMELY arcadey.    

I mentioned the rear gunner argument in a previous post.  Otto in the back seat would indeed cause nightmares.

For the record, I've *never* been shot down by an Il-2.  I have *no* problem shooting down IL-2's.  

Call it whatever you want, but in my opinion IL2's jumping up to defend a base, and being used BECAUSE of their F3 ability is right up there with beach storming CV's.

[Larry]

According to who?

Who said shooting down IL2's was hard?  Who complained of being shot down by an IL2?

Hmm the first post is about how he got killed by an IL2 because he didn't know how to fight it. It may not say it but that's what it was about no doubt about it.

Actually, I believe that IL2's upping by the dozen is EXTREMELY more arcadish then a bunch of Spitfires upping because Spitfires acutally had a history of doing just that in the Battle of Britain.  Maybe no Spit XIV or XVI's, but still!

Really? Spitfires upped out of fields being vulching by P38s in the BoB? I must have missed that part.

For the record, I've *never* been shot down by an Il-2.  I have *no* problem shooting down IL-2's.  

Lie.

Call it whatever you want, but in my opinion IL2's jumping up to defend a base, and being used BECAUSE of their F3 ability is right up there with beach storming CV's.

How do you know that? When I find myself in a dogfight in the Il2 I use the F3 mode only when looking for the enemy but when I get into the dogfight I stay in the canopy so I can use the gunsight to shoot him.


The F3 mode isn't going to change no matter how hard you guys cry about it. Its there to simulate having a whole crew, and until my rear gunner can track, shoot at, and call out enemy planes you're going to have to deal with it. So grab a tissue and dry those tears and play the game how it is or go play IL2. You can make your own server where external views are all disabled and the Il2s with fly level and let them shoot you down.