Why is the Ki-84 the only respected Japanese fighter?

[Karnak]

Reading the BBS today something struck me.  It seems to me that the only Japanese fighter that is respected here is the Ki-84.  Fans of the European theater will often fly it as well. The N1K2-J is savaged as an aircraft for unskilled newbies.  The Ki-61 isn't reviled, but gets put into the category of aircraft one uses if they want to show off, the category with things like the C.202 and P-40E.  The A6Ms are both dismissed due to their slow speeds and lack of any protection.

But the Ki-84 is actually generally liked.  Why is it treated differently?

[phatzo]

It is a good well rounded plane. Don't fly it much but thats how I feel about it when I do.

[Saxman]

It's the best fighter in the Japanese stable, and a good plane all-around. She's a dangerous opponent: Fast, climbs well, fairly rugged, highly maneuverable at low speeds. Her only major flaws are the limited usefulness and general inferiority of her guns, (the 20mm are better than the A6M2's but are no match for the Hispano, and the Japanese 12.7mm are quite poor in comparison to most other guns in its class) and her controls stiffen up REAL easily at speed.

[1Boner]

I'm not sure about why it is respected more than the others.

But if everything I've read about the plane is right, it isn't the plane it should be in this game.

Not sure why, but it seems to shed parts quicker than it should, and is not as fast as it should be.

I've read descriptions of it being as fast as a P-51!!

I've heard that this was the one Japanese plane that was to be avoided like the plague.

I'm sure there are reasons its not living up to the limited articles I have read, but I'm not sure what they are.

Enlighten me please.

[Fender16]

I tend to let KIs be when ever I am flying around.
Most of the time they are piloted well so I do my best not to engage them.

[Delirium]

The Ki84 is a P38 with training wheels.

[Masherbrum]

Community:  "The Ki-61 is a POS."      I now just agree.  

[Anaxogoras]

The Ki-84 is respected because it's competitive enough with the late war planeset, but it has some nasty traits that require the pilot to pay attention and spend some time learning what the plane can do.

If you pull too much AoA, it will snap roll without much warning (compared to our other aircraft).
If you dive too fast, you will lose parts...quickly.
You will sustain more pilot wounds in the Ki-84 than in the N1K or Ki-61.
The elevator becomes ineffective a higher speeds that are still slow enough not to cause structural failure.

That said, if you learn to work around these weaknesses, it is very competitive.

As a fighter, I used to think the Ki-84 was superior to the N1K, but after flying them more I've changed my mind.  I believe the N1K is superior because it doesn't have all of the weaknesses listed above.  You lose a little bit of speed, but the ability to dive without fear of losing parts is a big plus, and the control surfaces remain effective past 400mph ias.  The truckload of 20mm doesn't hurt, either.

The Ki-61 would be my favorite out of the three if it were faster.  When I fly the 61 it seems like there's a "shoot me" sign on my back.  A lot of people will drop what they're doing to attack it.  Despite its superior diving qualities, it frequently happens that after a diving BnZ pass on a bandit I find a Spitfire XVI closing on my 6, someone who has dropped 10k ft of altitude for a shot at a slow target.  The last time that happened I sent the XVI to the tower, but was ganged like crazy immediately afterward.

The A6M series is great for low CV battles, but it's not very gratifying to score most of your victories over enemy who only turned to avoid your faster countrymen.  In this way it's a lot like the Hurri IIC:  too slow to be effective on its own, scavenging on those who are already forced defensive.

[Karnak]

I never had trouble with the control authority of the Ki-84 once I learned that it needed combat trim off.  I also found its guns to be just fine, even to the point of getting kills with just the 12.7mm Ho-103s after the 20mm were exhausted.


Anax's first line came closest to what I was saying.  It is like the Ki-84 is good enough to be competitive, tough enough not to be a joke and quirky enough to take skill to use to its potential.

[Saxman]

Not sure why, but it seems to shed parts quicker than it should, and is not as fast as it should be.

Actually, the Ki-84 DID have issues losing parts and loss of control authority at high speeds

I've read descriptions of it being as fast as a P-51!!

Only in tests with capture examples using the higher-quality fuel available to the US.

[Karnak]

Saxman,

The only problem I have with it shedding parts is that it wasn't inherent to the design.  It was a quality control issue and no other aircraft in the game suffers from quality control issues.

As to the speed, I have read a comment where a P-51 pilot was told there was a contact as x altitude moving y speed and to scramble and go get it.  He said something like "Forget it, its a Frank."  By that I didn't take it to mean the Ki-84 was faster than the P-51, just that it was enough faster than other Japanese aircraft that the P-51 could not take off, climb to its altitude and chase it down before having to turn back due to low fuel.

[BnZs]

Its really quite simple.

The Zero is as close as any fighter comes to being truly "easy mode" if the opponent chooses to play the Zero's game, and almost helpless to go offensive vs. most  if they refuse.

The N1K is sort of the same circumstance, only less extreme. It doesn't help the N1Ks respectability that part of its "game" is typically HOing at every opportunity.

The Ki-84 by comparison is a moderately fast energy fighter. More difficult to get the most out of, yet more able to press the offensive against a wide variety of opposition once it is mastered.

[Saxman]

Saxman,

The only problem I have with it shedding parts is that it wasn't inherent to the design.  It was a quality control issue and no other aircraft in the game suffers from quality control issues.

I dunno, the N1K2 had issues with its landing gear collapsing for that same reason and several of my squad experienced this first hand while taxiing in frame one of this month's FSO...

And while the shedding parts may not have been inherent, high-speed control stiffness WAS.

[Karnak]

Heaven help us if we ever get the N1K1-J, and with 1100 made we very well might, as it had telescoping landing gear to make up for the mid-wing design it inherited from the N1K1 floatplane fighter.  They were very prone to failure and one of the big improvements on the N1K2-J was going to a low wing with normal landing gear.

The Ki-84 also had issues with landing gear failure due to improperly tempered steel.

[Anaxogoras]

I never had trouble with the control authority of the Ki-84 once I learned that it needed combat trim off.

"i" and "k" are your friends, no doubt, but that doesn't make the Ki-84 elevator feel like a Ki-61's.

It doesn't help the N1Ks respectability that part of its "game" is typically HOing at every opportunity.

Funny, I almost thought you were talking about the typical P-51D.