Perceptions of fight quality

[bj229r]

You got into a fight with a D9 in Mid-War?!?!

Good point, (I always assume a 190 is a D9) was my D11 on his A5

[bj229r]

  um i dont hunt gv,s i dont even carry ord 

Dunno what ya were doin, (can only assume it was gv-poppin) as we progressed to deck I saw a LOT of enemies of same country, as I could tell, I was only enemy in air....A20 popped me whilst I was fighting this guy, it said "Cobia##

[Spikes]

I agree Chalenge.  It might seem counter-intuitive, but having a 3rd arena might make that easier than just having two.  More choice might be the answer, not less.

I'd have to say if this came to pass, that it only rotate small maps only. Less base taking/sneaking, more fighting, and closer fights.

[Animl]

I agree

Correction;

I agree it is one of the key factors, but not THE single one. Changing that one element would probably have the biggest effect on gameplay environment.

I hate to keep using a non-issue as a comparison, but I saw this same negative effect on game play when AW turned PAC into Big PAC. It was cool, and it was big, and with it came big problems. Pretty much exactly what I see here. I went back the smaller ETO arenas where the fighting was more personal and more like playing football with the guys you all know in the neighborhood, then playing it in a city 4 way stoplight, where in a rat race where no one knows anyone and they all insult, mug and rob each other.

In a nut shell, I think it's a fairly definitive science where a certain threshold population size starts going sour. A point were in as it goes from Mayberry to <insert your fav big city here> with all the crime.

Kinda like overclocking, turn it up until you get errors then back it down a notch, or two. >*I*< think that error threshold has been passed. The game and the realistic settings are falling by the way side to accommodate a large arena (big city) mentality.

Since it's stupid to complain about something without an idea in exchange...

IMO keep the big arenas for events, make it something special. Keep the MAs (practice arenas) more intimate,...as that's where great comradeship is born and that is the core of what holds a community together,... in the long run, and people are more honorable in smaller crowds.

When it becomes too Big City, the happiness and honor milage will vary,...>IMO<

2 cents
Animl

[humble]

To me the biggest issue is that the current realities seem to be self sustaining. This is happening in the MWA as well. Just 1 example, on Sat I flew a couple of SBD hops on the 3rd one I was low and slow vs a spitty, pony came in...get spitty to auger, Jug comes in so I pop the ponies engine on a FQ shot I'd been ignoring till then. Jug pops me before I can get any speed or vertical maneuvering room back. I vented my spleen a bit (if you dont #@#$ a bit they will not know its "wrong").

Next afternoon run into jug driver and wingie in spits and they gang my A-20 so I up a 109F...figuring that its a plane I can manage the 1 on ? reasonably well in still having a challenge and fun factor. So we end up with a running 25-30 min fight going to deck and back up between the bases as the fight ebbs and flows...at the end he commented he was going to go watch his film(s) viewing it as a good lesson clip...I was happy to send him mine as well. However he had no issues bouncing me to prevent me from "pwning" another player.

To me the SBD/A-20/P-40 type fights are no different then how I flew way back when as a trainer, you cant learn if someone wont teach....or you wont let them.

[Stoney]

Another factor is the absolute lack of consensus among the players about what type of behavior is acceptable.  You've got the fraction that will HO their own mothers at the drop of a hat because it was "historical".  You've got the fraction that will gang their own mothers because it was "teamwork".  You've got the fraction that will exploit all the game mechanics to suicide pork and take undefended bases because it supports the war effort.  Some believe all of this behavior is fair game, and those of us that detest it all.  Somewhere in between exists the majority of the players.  We can't really do any shaming or apply any community peer pressure because as soon as a few of us do, 30 more come out and decry us as whiners or accuse us of trying to tell them what to do with their $15.

[FiLtH]

My take on quality fights from worst type to best.
(Of course I do some or all of these from time to time.)



WORST-

The Gangbang

    6 guys come to kill you while you are fighting another guy. Cannons firing all hoping for the kill. Worthless. Learned nothing except you need to get there quicker and aim better than the other guy. Having cannons helps too.


The Pick

    A single guy does the same as shown above except there is just one of them. Same results though.


The HO/Ram

    Marginally better than the last two. Atleast the guy gave you a chance to hit him...probably sacrifices position and dies soon after. If he won, hes just lucky he didnt get hit or died in a collision. If he lost he has a tower layout refresher course.


1 on 1

     These rare fights can be broken down further, and are the cherished fights we can have.

   A. You have a superior plane in speed/climb/cannon and use it to maintain the advantage to get a kill.

   B. You have a near equal matchup and fight it out striving to fly betterthan the other guy to have the       edge in preserving your E state and shooting better.

   C. You have an inferior plane and defeat every attempt the superior plane makes in attacking you, bring the the fight to your terms,flying defensively until the time to go on the offesive comes, and then killing him.

    You learn the most in 1 on 1 fights,especially if you can maintain a good attitude about winning or losing
the fight. Talk it over with your opponent, and state when you or he lost the advantage and how you or he arrived in the tower.





    

[Vudak]

This place reminds me of a local roller hockey rink I used to play at.  It had your basic rec leagues for different ages, with different levels for each age group.  A was the best, B less skilled, and so on.  It also fielded a travel team.

The travel team was by invite/tryout only.  You had to earn your place on it, and that took sweat and a dose of humiliation now and then.  I managed to play on it, but did my time riding the pine and proving myself before I ever got a regular shift.

The rec leagues were open to anyone.  It was up to you to choose what level you'd play at.  After my travel days, I always preferred to play in "A," even though the competition was stiff, and winning wasn't certain.  It took my team a few years of playing together before we finally won a championship (figure four seasons to a year).

I had a friend who always wanted to play in "D."  I'd ask him why, and he'd say, "Because then I can get a trophy."  He'd brag about how many goals he got in a game like it was a big accomplishment.  That always bugged me.  He wanted the glamour but didn't want to sweat for it.

That place was a lot like Aces High.  There's a travel team here, one high-quality rec league, and then a bunch of less competitive leagues for everyone else.  And you know, there's nothing wrong with playing for one of the less competitive ones as a matter of preference or ability...  But it does bug me how there's so many people like my friend in this game.  Some nights the place seems full of them.

[grizz441]

/snipped/ But in reference to one on ones in general...

I am all for allowing a 1v1 not to be interrupted, but it has to be an isolated 1v1, ya know what I mean?  If it's a 1v1 5-10k away from any action, this type of fight shouldn't be interrupted.  If your ally looks like he needs help, range should be used and ask him if he needs help.  No reply, no action.

Now, what about a 1v1 fight in the middle of a furball?  I don't see how you can call this a 1v1 and call somebody a name if they pick you.  If I get picked in a furball or near a furball, obviously in the danger zone, you'll never hear me grief on 200.  If I get picked in the middle of nowhere randomly in the middle of a fight, I will probably say something. 

Getting picked and picking is the nature of the beast in the main arena and imo isn't always dishonorable.  The more isolated a 1v1 is though, the more precautions you should take as a pilot not to interrupt a potentially promising fight for the two pilots involved.

[RumbleB]

problem here is the people who whine were usually doing the exact same thing they were whining about moments ago. as soon as the tide turns they throw their toys out the pram...

[bmwgs]

problem here is the people who whine were usually doing the exact same thing they were whining about moments ago. as soon as the tide turns they throw their toys out the pram...

Agree


Fred

[Hawk55]

Even the old tricks for starting a fight don't work as well any more. I flew over to an enemy base at about 8-10k had the base flashing for a while. Finally a 109 ups. I let him climb to 5-6k and I start attack. I'm in a C-hog, but I don't fire on the HO  or front quarter passes. I burn "E" recklessly until we are close in "E" but co alt at about 3k. I see a tiffy up so now I start to push the fight a bit harder figuring the tiffs going to get some alt while the 109 keeps me busy. Wrong, as I finish off the 109 I look over and the tiffy is on final for a landing. No he's not dragging me to the ack, he is slow and dropping gear and I'm not even in auto ack range yet ! He didn't even bother to try and fight. That is what this game is coming to. Fight even up? heck no I'm landing !!!

Nice write-up Fug, and very accurate!    You are a rarity these days in letting someone get alt & co-E before engaging.  Most would vulch you when you're low and slow. That's class and shows a willingness to fight instead of just kill.   

[humble]

The problem is that its leading to an ever lower overall understanding of ACM within a large segment of the player base. This is a clip from MWA over the weekend. I had "chased" a P-40 from A6 to A5 (he was much more interested in landing his two kills) and then "forced" a mossie in to the ack. As I fly thru the gap between field and town ack a 38 and spitty follow me out from the field...

http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film180.ahf

We've got hundreds (probably really well over 1000) good sticks still flying, but the other 75%+ of the player base seems to either have no desire to learn basic ACM or are unsure/unable how to start? Back when I started the numbers were low enough that a significant % of fights were either 1 on 1 or small number fights. Now you can fly an entire tour and never see a 1 on 1 if you dont want to...a key core strength is disappearing IMO.

[Anaxogoras]

Those are the people who log in, and ask for strategic information about the map, and which base will be the next capture/sneak attempt.

[VonMessa]

I log in and try to find all the fat chicks.