Author Topic: The New 109  (Read 1170 times)

Offline dolomite

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The New 109
« on: January 13, 2000, 08:58:00 PM »
I liked the old 109.

That being said, I really like the new one. It climbs like a scalded cat! I haven't made any comparisons to other a/c online yet, as I flew an hour online since download, all in the 109 against every type in the arena (except 109, how odd).

Extremely competitive. With a little refresher time (been flying other stuff) this bird will kill any stang foolish enough to meet co-E.  

I got bagged a few time tonight, mostly from behind while engaged (SA), but I did find the 109 will hold that nose up when need be and give those diving stangs a surprise!

Best use I've found so far? Hunting B26's! They are completely defenseless from a low approach, followed by a sharp climb into the belly. I bagged several in an hour (man, EVERYONE was flying one!) in the same manner, and only loaded the light guns. As far as I'm concerned, everyone can keep flying them!  

I'll wait for the usual suspects to have their go at it (Fishu, Hristo, Janneh) for a more "considered" opinion. My initial reaction a a hearty "WHOOOOHOOOO!"

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a.k.a. Kieren

"If you are the bait, more often than not you get bitten."

Offline juzz

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The New 109
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2000, 08:52:00 AM »
Err - it seems to me it climbs the same as it did in 0.45... Which version did you fly it last?

Offline dolomite

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The New 109
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2000, 10:51:00 AM »
I flew it last version too. Odd... I could get about 3200fpm without WEP last rev, and 3500fpm now. Torque is also toned down dramatically.

combat23

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The New 109
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2000, 11:40:00 AM »
At leaast for me and off line only the 109 still won't climb in a stright line with or with out wep. At about 15k it starts to wander. Messes up my beer run.

The question in my mind is just what is the auto pilot supposed to do? The plane(as with most wwII fighters) did not have an auto pilot. Any that did were of the wings leveler type. Is that what we have or is it supposet to handle speed, angle, and level, like a pilot so you can do something else. Like type or go get another beer?

Just a new guy wondering, not a beef

see ya on line

Offline Lephturn

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The New 109
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2000, 01:55:00 PM »
Well, there is not really an "auto pilot" in AH at all.  What we really have are 3 kinds of "auto trim" that will hold the plane to various conditions.  All three "modes" will keep the wings level and you going straight, setting roll and yaw trim to accomplish this.  Also, all three modes have minimum speeds, below which the Auto Pilot will dis-engage.  I believe that speed is 150 Mph at the moment

The first mode is Auto Level(X), which obviously keeps the plane flying straight and level.  Better than that, it does this by adjusting trim on the aircraft.  The reason I mention it is that you allways want your aircraft to be "in trim" for your fighting speed, to make control easier and keep your aircraft as efficient as possible.  One way to do this is to set Auto Level, let the plane get to your planned likely fighting speed, and then dis-engage.  The effect is to put your plane in trim for that speed, at that altitude and power setting.

The second type is Auto Speed(ALT+X), which will keep the wings level and keep the aircraft at a constant speed.  So if you want to climb to altitude, you can set a low speed like 160 (.speed 160) and engage Auto Speed and the plane will trim the aircraft to stay at 160 Mph.  These fighters have enough power to go faster than that, so the plane will keep on climbing to maintain that speed.  Auto Speed is the mode to use after you take off and want to get to 10 or 15k before you go looking for trouble.  You can set Auto Speed and go get a beer. <G>  This same mode can also be used to efficiently reach a high speed for a diving escape.  Be careful though, as Auto Speed will gladly fly you into the ground if you use too high a speed.  You can also use Auto Speed to set your trim tabs for a desired speed you plan to fight at, and in fact this is the best method in my opinion.

The third type is Auto Angle (SHIFT+X), where the plane will use the trim to attempt to keep the plane at the same pitch angle as the plane is pointing when you engaged it.  This is the wrong mode to use for climbing, as if you use too low an angle, you will have a low climb rate, and if you set too high an angle, you may slow down until the Auto disengages.  Auto Speed will do a climb out best, because you can tell it to hold the AC at your best climb speed and adjust pitch angle to suit.  Auto Angle I only use for diving.  The main problem with diving for a BnZ pass for example, is that your speed will increase greatly.  The more your speed changes, the more "out of trim" your aircraft becomes.  This makes it harder to control and makes your aircraft less efficient.  Because Auto Angle will adjust your trim automatically as your speed changes maintain the angle you set, it overcomes this problem and keeps the aircraft perfectly in trim throughout the dive.  A great way to execute a BnZ pass is to line up the enemy, nose over into the proper angle dive, and engage Auto Angle.  As you approach your desired altitude, disengage Auto Angle and your plane is now perfectly trimmed for your gun pass, which will make gunnery much easier.  Once you make your pass, pull up into a nice climb angle or steep zoom angle, engage Auto Angle again for a nice efficient climb back to altitude.  Auto Angle is also a very good way to make a diving escape.  If you need to accellerate much, you should use a 0G dive first, but once diving and up to a high speed, engage Auto Angle.  This will trim your aircraft in the dive as speed increases and keep your aircraft as eficient as possible.  When you are either fast enough or the ground is getting close, dis-engage and continue your extension.  Be careful here, as Auto Angle will happily fly you into Terra Firma if you are not paying attention.

Well, I hope that answered your questions about the "Auto Pilot" in Aces High.  I'll be saving this post for a website I am working on so others can have this available to them as well.  For now though, I think I'll post it in the training forum as well.  

Oink!


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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 01-14-2000).]

Offline popeye

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The New 109
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2000, 02:09:00 PM »
I believe Auto Speed now defaults to the best climb speed for each aircraft.  Wasn't that in a recent update readme?

popeye
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Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline Westy

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The New 109
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2000, 02:20:00 PM »
 Thanks for that great explanation Lephturn.
Not having dealt with trim before I'd asked how to use the auto-trim features months ago but not nary an answer.
 As it turns out I found out for myself, by trial and error, the same methods on how to use use angle trim and level trim that you describe above.
 I'd not gotten to using speed trim yet...
 That's over the next several weeks  

 -Westy

Offline Vermillion

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The New 109
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2000, 02:35:00 PM »
Yes Pops, each aircarft now defaults to its "best climb" speed, at sea level, when you engage auto speed.

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Vermillion
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Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

Offline Lephturn

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The New 109
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2000, 02:51:00 PM »
Thanks guys.. I noticed something was different but I thought it was just that the planes "remembered" your speed settings.  Musta missed that in the readme.

I'll add that to the article now so it is up to date for posting on the web site.  



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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

Offline fats

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The New 109
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2000, 07:59:00 PM »
By no means I qualify as a good pilot, but...

when I hear people 'not trimmming their aircraft right' I LOL. There is no magic to trimmming, similar to there is no magic to proper convergance or what ever. All you have to do is to be able to analyze your flights properly. As a programmer I guess I am over analytic but sometimes it feels like some of the 'regular' people ought to catch some of it for their own benefit.

There is no all magic trim setting for everyone, nor is there a magic 'what_ever' for anyone or any plane type. Lephturn's attempt was good and quite 'universal', but everyone still has to find their own happy medium regards to trim for example.

//fats
p.s. yes Leph I am - u know I am sure.


Offline Minotaur

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The New 109
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2000, 09:15:00 AM »
Leph

Does Otto really kick out for you at 150mph?  

I often set my OttoSpeed for 130mpg, this maximizes my up trim, but Otto stays engaged.

Another tip:  OttoSpeed works well to control your descent.  Set the speed for 200-350mph, enage OttoSpeed, then reduce engine power to minimum.  250mph works well for getting a B-17 down.

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 01-16-2000).]

Offline Lephturn

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The New 109
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2000, 05:05:00 PM »
Auto used to kick out at 150... I'll have to test it now.

Good tips for the Buffers Mino.  

Fats I agree there is no "magic" trim setting.  Hopefully the guide above will let the newer players understand how the auto-trim can help them however.  Being in trim primarily helps with gunnery for me, and when I was a WB trainer teaching pilots how to trim tended to help a LOT with gunnery.  You don't have to be "right on" with your trim settings, but it's good to know how to use the Auto functions to get you close.  How "in trim" you need to be depends on the plane you fly (some are more sensitive to speed changes than others and require more trimming), the controls you use, and most importantly your own preferences.  I agree there is not really a right or wrong way to trim your AC.  If you understand how to manipulate all the controls, you can adjust it to your liking.  I hope my article made more folks aware of the tools we have to accomplish this in AH.  



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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

Offline SnakeEyes

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The New 109
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2000, 09:31:00 PM »
I know at least one WB player who'd trim to speed (300) and then had a radio dial on his TQS that modified the trim (assuming a 300 IAS baseline) in 50 IAS increments.

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Offline juzz

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The New 109
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2000, 06:24:00 AM »
I've set the 4 base buttons on my MSSPP stick to various .speed settings, in an attempt to be able to do "corkscrew" manoeuvers, while gunning at the same time. I think I need some rudder pedals though, using twisty stick sucks