K/D: then vs now

[grizz441]

It could not have anything to do with the rearm pads?

HiTech

Do you have stats on how many players actually rearm?  I don't do it very often.

[mipoikel]

It could not have anything to do with the rearm pads?

HiTech

Can you see from your logs how much rearm pads are used in AH? I dont see them in use very much. (except scenarios) Most people dont live long enough to get back home.

[phatzo]

It could not have anything to do with the rearm pads?

HiTech

this is the biggest difference that I have found
its like comparing it to a WB streak where all you had to do was land to continue your streak badair regularly had a streak of 90 to 100 every month

[Anaxogoras]

Rearm pads only affect K/S, not K/D.  Right?

[maddafinga]

Until coming here I never even thought about k/d at all.  I used to auger to change planes or fields or whatever and never even thought about it.  I find that since I've come back here after a multi year layoff, I've been worrying about my k/d some all of a sudden.  I feel like that sucks a little bit of the fun out of it for me, but only a little bit really.  If I really worried about it a lot, I'd have to change the way I fly, and that would really suck the fun away IMO.

[Steve]

I don't mean to differ with HT but I don't understand what  the hot pads have to do with K/D

[Murdr]

It could not have anything to do with the rearm pads?

HiTech

I would say the percieved disparity between AW and AH k/s is due to your excellent ballistics/hit detection/damage model/ability to fire primary and secondary banks individually, along side of AWs relative rudimentry hit detection, and random damage model, and all guns firing at once.  

My best P-38 sortie without re-arming in AH was 18 kills without vulches. My best P-38 flight in AW was 11 kills, which included vulches.  Without rearms- 14 in a spit9, back to back 13 and 14 in a dora, 9 in a yak...all well above what I'd expect to get in AW.

My k/d is probably about the same, though I don't really pay much attention to it unless it strays very far away from my average performance.  

[A8HatTrick]

Totally agree. The same principles apply to Warbirds as well.

Umm... then you either have a very fuzzy memory or never flew WB.

I flew WB from BETA .07 thru 2.01, almost 5 years.  HiTech worked very hard on the Dmg Model, and had great success with it, along with including variables such as velocity, trajectory and dmg potential of rounds, all based upon verified data collected mostly by the community itself by doing research. Their boards ( at AGW ) would be 90% conversations of how to improve the game, research on acft, guns, ammo and tactics. Everyone knew everyone, would share information, shoot it off to Texas, discuss ad naseum at conventions, and it would be put into the game.

The main reason for all of this, was the average age of a WB player was well into the 30-55 age range, based mostly off the fact it cost hourly rates all the way up to $2.00, and only history loving aviation enthusiast with jobs could afford it.   There where no squeakers...........  and yes, with only 200 in an arena, most of them great sticks, most being able to tell who they where fighting based upon the tactics being displayed... the experience was far more real life like, and thus the K/D ratios where much lower. Except the streak thing.....

The game you all enjoy today owes a large part to War Birds and HiTechs experiences and lessons there, and the community played a major role in all of it.

So yeah, part of me DOES want an hourly rate arena... but kids these days are more spoiled than ever with their cell phones and charge cards... so the squeakers would still show their faces.

Base Captures are much better here, graphics are better here, there is alot better here in AH.  But I doubt HT would argue the fact that a desire to make money (mans gotta make a living) forced him to rethink the game and how it was to be structured to draw a larger audience (younger gamers with short attention spans and make the game cheaper), but it was at the cost of the quality of community and quality of experience in game.

 

[Widewing]

Rearm pads only affect K/S, not K/D.  Right?

HiTech was responding to the initial observation that AH2 pilots are landing more kills than AW pilots. That goes to K/S. Rearming allows one to increase the total number of kills until shot down, bored, or acquiring enough to get lots of WTGs upon landing them. 

My regards,

Widewing

[Anaxogoras]

HiTech was responding to the initial observation that AH2 pilots are landing more kills than AW pilots. That goes to K/S. Rearming allows one to increase the total number of kills until shot down, bored, or acquiring enough to get lots of WTGs upon landing them. 

My regards,

Widewing

Oh, yeah, that's obvious now that you point it out (smacks forhead).  I guess I missed it because I haven't rearmed to bump up K/S since last summer, unless the fighter hangars are down.  9 kills in a 38L without rearming is not extraordinary.

I started the thread with K/S because it's necessarily connected to K/D: the latter is always equal to or greater than the former.

[hitech]

I flew WB from BETA .07 thru 2.01, almost 5 years.  HiTech worked very hard on the Dmg Model, and had great success with it, along with including variables such as velocity, trajectory and dmg potential of rounds, all based upon verified data collected mostly by the community itself by doing research. Their boards ( at AGW ) would be 90% conversations of how to improve the game, research on acft, guns, ammo and tactics. Everyone knew everyone, would share information, shoot it off to Texas, discuss ad naseum at conventions, and it would be put into the game.

The main reason for all of this, was the average age of a WB player was well into the 30-55 age range, based mostly off the fact it cost hourly rates all the way up to $2.00, and only history loving aviation enthusiast with jobs could afford it.   There where no squeakers...........  and yes, with only 200 in an arena, most of them great sticks, most being able to tell who they where fighting based upon the tactics being displayed... the experience was far more real life like, and thus the K/D ratios where much lower. Except the streak thing.....

Uter and complete BS.

Just to give you an example of how biased this opinion is K/D average of either game has to be the same, simply because for every death there is a kill.

The age range in AH is the same as it was in WB.

The total number of people playing AH is almost the same as what WB's was when I left.

Ows something to WB? I think not, AH is an evolution of WB because I was the creator and designer of both. But WB  more realistic? Not in any portion of any model including damage modeling.

But I doubt HT would argue the fact that a desire to make money (mans gotta make a living) forced him to rethink the game and how it was to be structured to draw a larger audience (younger gamers with short attention spans and make the game cheaper), but it was at the cost of the quality of community and quality of experience in game.

Once again, nothing is different now then when I was running WB's.The same goals apply now as then.  I am always amazed how people can say the quality is less, when all the people play here and not in WB. What do you really believe a people prefer to play a game that has less quality and is more expensive? Because we are more expensive than  WB.

HiTech

 

[Ciaphas]

For many of us "old" people it was an hobby/field of interest long before any computers were capable of running a flight sim

So it's true! You used to fly a pterodactyl.

[Anaxogoras]

Just to give you an example of how biased this opinion is K/D average of either game has to be the same, simply because for every death there is a kill.

I think dawger and everyone else are referring to the greater deviation in K/D in AH versus Warbirds, not the average, which by necessity has to be 1.  A 3:1 K/D ratio in AH is no big whoop; in Warbirds it frequently denoted a very good stick.  That means that the worst players in Warbirds likely had a better K/D ratio than the worst players in AH.

Still, I think that the addition of an attack category does more to sway the K/D ratios than anything else.

Owes something to WB? I think not, AH is an evolution of WB because I was the creator and designer of both. But WB  more realistic? Not in any portion of any model including damage modeling.

Dawger did not claim that Warbirds the game was more realistic than AH.  His claim was that the tougher opposition, and hence lower K/D ratios, made it more realistic.  I don't know what's realistic about that, but that's what he was saying.  I think he would have been better off saying that tougher opposition was more fun.

[grizz441]

Just to give you an example of how biased this opinion is K/D average of either game has to be the same, simply because for every death there is a kill.

Yes K/D average of the populous has to be the same (1:1) but this K/D talk is coming from the better pilots.  So it's like comparing the K/D of the 95th percentile of skilled pilots. (or 90th percentile, whatever, pick an upper class)

[Anaxogoras]

Yes K/D average of the populous has to be the same (1:1) but this K/D talk is coming from the better pilots.  So it's like comparing the K/D of the 95th percentile of skilled pilots. (or 90th percentile, whatever, pick an upper class)

Right.  3:1 would've put you in the 95th percentile 10 years ago; 3:1 today would be more like (guesstimating) 75th percentile.

Edit: doing a few rough calculations, assuming there's about 5000 active fighter pilots:

6.59 K/D is ~99th percentile
2.73 K/D is ~93rd percentile
1.23 K/D is ~80th percentile
0.69 K/D is ~61st percentile

So that means dying a little less than twice as often as you kill is far better than average.

I don't think a high K/D means "good."  How can it with so many players being nothing more than "dead money" in the pot?  There's also a number of pilots who can kick the crap out of me but who do not achieve a K/D of 1 because they constantly put themselves, intentionally, into impossible situations.