F4U-4 vs Spitfire 14

[MachFly]

We have tested the F4U-4 against the Tempest, Spit14, Spit16, La-7, 190K-4, Ta 152, Dora and the like. By we, I mean some of the best pilots in the game. Regardless of who flew the F4U-4, it was the equal of the La-7 and Spit16 down low (if the fight goes long enough to get slow, the F4U-4 gains a noticeable edge). It was superior at 10k and above. The F4U-4 was superior to the others at any altitude up through 30k.

When I stated that the F4U-4 was superior to the Spitfire Mk.XIV, I wasn't assuming anything. We have tested the best fighters head to head many times. That doesn't mean that the Spit14 isn't a great fighter, because it is. It's just not the F4U-4's equal... Overall, nothing else is either.

Hmm....thanks for the info

Would you happen to have a video of that? Kinda interested at what exactly happened.

[Anaxogoras]

I spent time in both today because of this thread.  These were my impressions:

F4U-4: Handles nearly identically to the other F4U's, but it's faster, climbs better, and accelerates better.  With 100% fuel and a drop tank it could not sustain 3000fpm at military power on climb-out, but the performance dramatically improves as you lose weight.  It's a solid gun platform.  It is superlative in a dive, and can force any prop airplane in the arena to fight.  For this reason, it is easy to get overconfident and put yourself in a bad position to punish a P-51 that tries to run away.  Despite its great low speed characteristics, keep it fast, and only get the flaps out in a pinch.

SpitXIV:  Leaps off the runway.  Climbs at least as well as the 109K-4, accelerates like an La-7, superior to the F4U-4 in these respects.  The ailerons become heavy in level flight because of the high speed.  It's unable to follow the Spit XVI through nose-low maneuvers that incorporate a lot of roll.  The instability makes it a poor gunnery platform; the nose has a tendency to "bounce" while you're trying to aim.  Requires a lot more rudder/throttle finesse to make it perform optimally than the F4U-4.  It can be difficult to force the enemy to fight because they will constantly dive away in rolling maneuvers that the XIV cannot follow.

In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus.

[Steve]

In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus.

Spit 14 is  slower than 51D

[Angus]

At what altitude?
Anyway, it's not even the ultimate Spit XIV in AH, - AFAIK.

[MachFly]

Spit 14 is  slower than 51D

I don't think so, A P51 never ran away from me when i was on spit14, how ever i did run away from a pony ones. (10K and above)

I spent time in both today because of this thread.  These were my impressions:

F4U-4: Handles nearly identically to the other F4U's, but it's faster, climbs better, and accelerates better.  With 100% fuel and a drop tank it could not sustain 3000fpm at military power on climb-out, but the performance dramatically improves as you lose weight.  It's a solid gun platform.  It is superlative in a dive, and can force any prop airplane in the arena to fight.  For this reason, it is easy to get overconfident and put yourself in a bad position to punish a P-51 that tries to run away.   Despite its great low speed characteristics, keep it fast, and only get the flaps out in a pinch.

SpitXIV:  Leaps off the runway.  Climbs at least as well as the 109K-4, accelerates like an La-7, superior to the F4U-4 in these respects.  The ailerons become heavy in level flight because of the high speed.  It's unable to follow the Spit XVI through nose-low maneuvers that incorporate a lot of roll.  The instability makes it a poor gunnery platform; the nose has a tendency to "bounce" while you're trying to aim.  Requires a lot more rudder/throttle finesse to make it perform optimally than the F4U-4.  It can be difficult to force the enemy to fight because they will constantly dive away in rolling maneuvers that the XIV cannot follow.

In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus.

Greatly Appreciate that.

[Anaxogoras]

Acceleration baby!

[MachFly]

Acceleration baby!

I believe you are referring to the spitfire   

[MachFly]

Soda's Aircraft Evaluation

Spitfire Mk XIV

Overview

There really are mixed opinions on the SpitXIV in general. I have to say, used in it's element it is a wonderful plane, but used outside of that is just another Spitfire, but that's not a bad thing.  To control the use of the SpitXIV it has a high perk value attached to it, so you need to use it wisely and not just throw it away by getting into poor situations and not giving yourself a chance to escape.  The Spit XIV is a killer, no doubt, and at some altitudes can show every other propeller driven plane exactly what the Spitfire is all about, a killer.

To be successful

The Spitfire Mk XIV is an excellent plane, although it is one that shows it's advantages under certain conditions while also showing that it is quite "ordinary" under others.  Ordinary isn't a bad thing, but is certainly isn't worth risking the perks to take one out of the hanger when a Spit IX is free and could be flown in the same fashion.  That's what it really comes down to in the case of the Spit XIV though, you need to know how to fly it.  Too many Spit drivers simply fly them all the same, usually as turn-fighters, where the Spit XIV can show you what a great energy fighter can do.

Engine power is incredible, though some people simply don't realize it.  Here is why, at sea-level the Spit XIV can cruise at 332mph, nothing good in that number.  With WEP that can be brought up to 358mph, a big difference but still not a number that will turn heads in any way.  At those speeds an La5 is going to be able to keep up, let alone mention something like a 190D9, La7, 109G10, or Typhoon.   If you climb up to about 12.5K though the situation is dramatically different, 400mph cruise.  Need a bit of a sprint at 12K, kick in the WEP and you'll quickly see 420mph.  Bump that up to 28K and you are seeing 427mph in cruise.  Punch in the WEP up high and at 26K you are pulling 448mph.  Those are pretty big numbers, larger than pretty much anything else.  Not only that, look at the climb rate of the Spit XIV from sea-level, 5,000ft/minute all the way up to about 9K.  Nothing can match that, not the 109G10, not the La7, nothing.  Trips to 12K are only a little over 2 minutes away and pretty much ensure that your 400mph speed is going to bring at least parity with anyone else up at 12K (though it is a tight race against some opponents).   WEP is important too, without it you are likely comparable to the best fighters at similar altitudes, with it you are likely better.  Don't burn your WEP up in transit or during climbs, chances are with the attention you are bound to attract you will need it all for the fight ahead.

Firepower is standard Spitfire, twin 20mm hispano cannons backed up either four .303's or twin .50's.  The hispanos really are the key to this package, they add the real punch while the other guns are mostly just supporting.   The .50's option seems to give the better results as the hitting power of a .50 is more than twice that of a .303 for most purposes in the game.  The .50 also seems to give an increased number of critical hits over the .303 which can be important to swing an enemy into a position where they need to end the fight quickly or escape.  The hispanos have 120 rounds/gun while the .50s have 250.  Once the hispanos are fired away though I would recommend it's time to leave and reload with more.

Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference.  If you are turn-fighting with the Spit XIV though you are missing the point and may as well just take a Spit IX.   Maneuverability in the Spit XIV is only used to get the guns into position when taking snapshots or during BnZ attacks.  The only time to get into sustained turn-fights is when you are completely alone with an enemy you know can't out-turn you.   Any other time is likely to lead to an awfully quick ending for you since everyone knows you are in a Spit XIV and will hunt you like a pack of hungry wolves.

Offensively, BnZ or slash attack opponents who are at your altitude or lower.  Don't get engaged too low as the Spit loses too much performance even with WEP at very low altitudes.  Cruise at a comfortable altitude where you don't expect to see many/any enemy cons above you.  Always remember that your icon is special and every enemy within icon range will be screaming that there is a Spit XIV in the area, thus you attract a lot of attention, quickly.  Best to be above trouble in such a situation.  Never accept Head-On's, though the hispanos will likely make a draw, you certainly wouldn't want to risk the perk points in such a manner against an inferior opponent.  You should never find yourself in a situation in a Spit XIV where, one on one, you don't have a clear advantage in some area of the fight.   Energy fighting is beautiful in the Spit XIV, the climb, acceleration, top speed, and handling all aid this.  Try and fight that sort of fight while remaining out of harms way.

Defensively, don't immediately dive to the deck for speed since the engine performs worse at sea-level and you will never actually break off enemies who are chasing you because they give up.  The only way to lose an enemy is to show him pure horsepower in speed and climb.  Too many opponents can easily catch a Spit XIV low.  Make maneuvers that are just violent enough to avoid attack and try to build up energy parity.  The Spit can put on speed and climb instantly and make many opponents with equal speed very envious.  You don't want to get stuck in a constant turning duel down low against multiple opponents as your options in such a fight are typically low.  Try to initiate a climbing spiral turn and use the Spit XIV's extraordinary climb rate to quickly pull you above the enemy while your great turn-rate will defeat their attempts to get a gun lead on you.  Always be trying to build up energy advantage though after a defensive maneuver.  Many planes find it very difficult to replace lost energy and you can quickly build up a big energy surplus on them before they realize it.

A couple of last notes, the Spit XIV is a big target, which is unfortunate.  Every enemy within radio range will know you are there and be hunting you to the point of making suicidal attacks just to deny you the ability to land your plane.  People will completely forget everything else around them and immediately dive in on you, so expect that and keep your situational awareness high.   Bringing a Spit XIV to a furball is just too unpredictable and likely to draw too much attention.  You should always have some sort of advantage in a Spit XIV though against an opponent, often many, in speed, climb, and/or turn-rate.

To beat it

The lucky thing is, most Spit XIV pilots fly it just like any other Spit and then cry when they lose it.  They think it should turn like a Zero and sprint like a La7 on the deck and fly it like that, throwing caution to the wind and expecting the plane to haul their butts out of trouble.  Unfortunately, it can't be flown like that successfully, or at least not typically.  That said, you should always fear a Spit XIV, because if the pilot at the controls has any clue on how to properly use it he will quickly show you how dominant it can be.

Offensively, you need to corner a Spit XIV, typically not an easy task.  An altitude advantage is usually a requirement though if you can catch one at low altitudes (under 5K) there are a number of aircraft that can stay on the tail of a Spit and force it to defend.  Driving a Spit XIV low is a good start, make it defensive and maneuver as such but be very careful to preserve your own energy and not bleed much in your attacks.  It is rare that you can catch a Spit in one maneuver so plane on this being a bit of an extended battle where you will need all your energy.   The lower the fight, the more parity a plane like the La7, 190D9 or 109G10 is going to have in energy building.  Watch each Spit maneuver closely and make sure he isn't just building energy on each defense.  If you drive him lower, you need to get him to bleed speed, and not just climb back up.  Be aggressive and continue the pressure.   Unless you are greedy, having a second plane help you is best.  Likely, you will find though that every friendly plane within icon range will be trying to beat you to the kill.  I hate to recommend taking a Head On, but sometimes against a Spit XIV it can be about the best option available and shows that the Spit driver is getting desperate.

Defensively, you need to try and get into a position where you have some advantage.  Some fighters can out-turn the Spit XIV, namely the other Spits, N1K, Hurricanes or Zero so you can try that.  Chances are the Spit isn't like to play that game with you unless it is out of options.  Never try and fight in the vertical against one as it will totally dominate you unless you have an excellent position to start with.  The combination of turn-rate and climb rate will make 190's, 109's and La7's pretty envious.  In a real speed demon you can probably out-run the Spit XIV down low, especially if you think he has been using WEP in other fights recently (and doesn't have full WEP time left).  Diving to top speed, then maintaining that at sea-level is your best chance in cases like that.  The Spit XIV knows it's not best at sea-level and may not follow at all since it would put them at a disadvantage.   Extend a long way though, the Spit XIV is likely building energy like crazy while you are running away and you will need to build at least that amount of energy if you are thinking about coming back with any sort of honest offensive effort later.

to be continued....

[MachFly]

The Spit XIV tends to draw a lot of attention, so it is likely you will have lots of help in the same way people chase Me262's around forever with no hope of actually catching one.  The Spit is catchable by a number of planes down low, even non-perk ones, so if you see one circling low it is at it's most vulnerable.

F4U-4

Overview

The ultimate Corsair in AH, the F4U-4 is a perked plane and has limited use in the MA most of the time.  It is probably one of the most popular perk planes though and as compared to other Corsairs the reasons are clear.  Where some Corsairs have a weakness in acceleration and top speed, the F4U-4 has none of these.  The huge power, combined with a tough airframe that can make the most of it, combines for a deadly package in the hands of a knowledgable pilot.  The F4U-4 is by no means invicible though, it requires good situational awareness and energy management techniques in order to really dominate.

Engine Performance

A world apart from other Corsairs, the F4U-4 packs top 5 performance pretty much across the board.  Sea-level cruise speed is a solid 358mph, tied for best overall with the La7, but with WEP it can pull 378mph which is 2mph slower than the La7.  The Tempest is slightly faster at sea-level though it is also a perk plane and very rare so the chances of a F4U-4 bumping into a Tempest are almost nil.  Increases in altitude only make the F4U-4 faster with a 380mph cruise speed available at only 5.5K.  At 20K the F4U-4 can make a 415mph cruise while absolute top speed is around 440mph at 26.5K.  There is a bit of a dead band in the speed improvement between 6K and 10K so try and skip over this area if you can.  Climb rate is good but the use of WEP is really important for the majority of the climbing curve.  At low levels (under 4K) you can manage 3,500ft/minute without the use of WEP but between 4K and 18K the use of WEP will maintain this rate while lack of WEP can drop you over 500ft/min.  Acceleration is good, top 5 at both low and high altitudes though there are a couple of aircraft that will give you trouble in a drag race so it's not advisable.  WEP time is limited to only 5 minutes so don't abuse your WEP and give it plenty of time to cool between uses.  Fuel duration is only 25 minutes on full internal, which is advisable, though you can add up to two external drop tanks that add +16 minutes each.  Often taking a drop tank would be a good idea, releasing it before entering the fight.

Firepower

Exactly as in the F4U-D, there are six .50 cal machineguns mounted 3 to a wing in a nice tight package.  Four of the guns have 400 rounds/gun, the remaining two only 375 rounds/gun though that tends to be quite a bit.  The mounting position of the guns is fairly distant on the wings, outside the prop arc (of a HUGE prop) so convergence can be an issue.  Try and pick a range that is relatively short or a small zone in the D300-D350 range, tops.  That should give a nice deadly range in order to kill people quickly.  What the .50's lack in individual killing power they make up for in ballistic properties and rate of fire.  You can also add external ordinance of up to 8 5 inch rockets or two 1,000lb bombs.  The bombs replace the drop tanks (one or both are an option) but using the F4U-4 as a group attacker is a bit pointless as the F4U-D can perform the same role without risking any perk points.  Any sort of firing opportunity should be taken, snapshots, crossing, etc, though Head-Ons are not really advisable because of the perk nature of the aircraft.

Maneuverability

The F4U-4 weighs in at a whopping 12,420lbs making it no lightweight though it is only a couple hundred pounds heavier than the -D model and has far more engine power.  The F4U-4 does retain the somewhat spooky handling of the other Corsairs and should be treated with care at low speeds and when landing.  Use of proper flaps can be important to avoid snapstalls and crashes.  All Corsairs thrive at high speeds though and the F4U-4 is no different.  High speed handling is as good as anything in the game in roll and elevator response with easy recovery from even the steepest dives.  Some caution should be exercised in regards to acceleration, the F4U-4 can build up too much speed very quickly because of the massive engine power.  The great mass of the F4U-4 also allows it to retain and hide energy very effectively.  The F4U-4 has combat flaps that can be deployed at higher speeds to aid turn-rate but these should be used sparingly in controlled bursts.  The F4U-4 also has the interesting ability that it can deploy the landing gear at much higher than the typical 200mph limit without damage.  This might normally be a interesting possibility in combat except for the perk price but can be a nice addition to add drag for landings or in duels (where perks mean nothing).

Flying the F4U-4

Fly the F4U-4 like a D-Hog for the most part but be aware that your icon is displaying to everyone around you that you are in a special aircraft.  You will typically draw a lot of attention and should ensure you keep a high level situational awareness as most enemies are probably looking for a way to get to you and attack you.

Offensively, use the great high speed handling and mass of the F4U-4 to stun people with amazing zooms and plummetting dives.  Don't slow down enough to turn-fight anything or limit your turns to a maximum of about 90 degrees under any sort of medium level of G's.  Learn how to lag turn people as this can help you retain speed very effectively until you get your shot.  Use the .50's advantages, easy aiming and high rate of fire, to lay quick hits on people that can translate to a large number of bullet impacts.  If you get an enemy at the correct range as you set in your convergence then you are likely to land dozens of hits in a very brief period of time.  While your acceleration is good, you need to not rely on it as the La7, 190D9, and Bf109-G10 all have roughly comparable accelerations and are very common to see in the MA. Don't use WEP until combat, there is little reason unless you want to boost your climb rate a bit when you first take off.  Just give it some time to cool back down though while cruisuing as you really don't need WEP for that, the F4U-4 is plenty fast.

Defensively, don't enter the fight while exposing yourself to numerous higher opponents.  Any enemy that is higher is going to think of nothing except diving and trying to intercept your perk plane to kill you.  You don't need to climb into the nose-bleed seats though, just get a little altitude to work with, maybe 10K or whatever is appropriate to the situation.  A higher diving Spitfire or N1K is not all that likely to catch you as long as you detect them early enough and react, regardless of how much excess altitude they may have started with.  Remember, few aircraft that are as fast as you have the high speed handling you possess in a dive.  Take planes like the 109's, Spits, N1Ks, etc to high speeds and then simply turn away or use your roll to ge them out of phase with you so you can leave.  The La7 is likely to be the most dangerous aircraft to you at lower altitudes though he really only has parity with you in speed and no advantage as long as you have WEP to use.  Don't be afraid to put the F4U-4 into a 0G nose over to dive as the acceleration is outstanding in this situation, just like with a P-47.  Always try and leave yourself a little bit of altitude to use to escape, maybe setting a floor of 5K for yourself in any fight.  Once you reach the point where you can't retain a reasonable speed at that level then it's time to leave the build up some energy.  The F4U-4 is pretty good in that respect so you won't have to leave the fight for long.

Fighting the F4U-4

Keep your head on a swivel as the F4U-4 can come out of nowhere with amazing speed and has the handling to almost instantly adjust his aim.  The F4U-4 is actually fairly common so you are bound to see a few of them around the skys from time to time.  Consider it's high speed abilities to be slightly superior to any other Corsair though the icon will let you know instantly that you have an F4U-4 to deal with.  Try sucking the pilot into a slower turning fight if you can or give him only high deflection shots at medium speeds which the enemy is unlikely to have success with.  Defensively, the best thing you can probably do is retreat if the F4U-4 doesn't seem willing to slow down to fight.

Offensively, catching an F4U-4 can be pretty easy if you have a little altitude to work with to convert into speed and an aircraft that handles enough to match his speed.  Sometimes one pilot will end up the person who corners the F4U-4 while another pilot may be the one who finishes the job.  Initiate a shallow dive to build up speed and then pursue the F4U-4 is you care managing to catch him.  Remember that his sustained high speed potential is likely higher than your so once you lose closure your attack is over.  It's best to break off slightly before that so as not to signal to the enemy that you know you've blown your chance and are lower on energy already.  Never consider the Corsairs a single shot kill either, they can often absorb a lot of punishment and continue to fly with little performance damage.  The F4U-4 shouldn't be completely overpowering though if you set up yoru situation properly and don't get impatient.  Most F4U-4's are not overly well flown and tend to be rather easy to sucker in to turn style fights were aircraft like the Spitfire will simply chew them to pieces.

[Saxman]

I prefer my writeup on the AH Wiki, but that's just me.

[Noir]

Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference.

I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.

[moot]

Soda's writeups are good but not perfect.  The Ta152's not exactly accurate either.

[Karnak]

Spit 14 is  slower than 51D

Flat out on the deck in a long drag race, yes.

Elsewhere, no.

That is one of the best things about the Spit XIV, it can force Runstangs to fight.  The last fight I had in it before canceling my account was against a P-51B and it could not escape from me, nor was the pilot good enough to out maneuver me.  He bounced me and I was able to power my way out of trouble and turn the tables, never letting him escape even when he tried.

[Angus]

My old friend from the wartime RAF was a P51C stick, and did some time chasing doodlebugs. He stated that the Spit XIV was clearly faster, since it frequently ran down the missiles, while the P51C would need some altitude advantage.
That was in real life, and at low altitude.
Anyway, up high the tables turn more, the XIV we have is very fast at high altitude. Guess I'll have to test these birdies in the DA tonight

[MachFly]

Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference.

I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.

Yea, your right.
Spit 14 is more like spit 8, not 9.