wanted: fighter pilots opinion

[RedTop]

At the risk of sounding stupid....(which at times is very easy for me to do )...would someone enlighten me....Was my answer wrong? I'm sensing someone tokk abeating and is wondering what happened....

[Bronk]

RT check PM.

[Lusche]

At the risk of sounding stupid....(which at times is very easy for me to do )...would someone enlighten me....Was my answer wrong? I'm sensing someone tokk abeating and is wondering what happened....

Your answer was neither wrong nor right. It's a FSO thing that already resulted in two locked threads and even a pretty clear statement by Skuzzy about that matter
And honestly, I don't think it's either worth or appropriate to reopen that discussion again in the General Discussion forum.

[Bronk]

And honestly, I don't think it's either worth or appropriate to reopen that discussion again in the General Discussion forum.

Wondered why I typed "lose the war".

[RedTop]

Your answer was neither wrong nor right. It's a FSO thing that already resulted in two locked threads and even a pretty clear statement by Skuzzy about that matter
And honestly, I don't think it's either worth or appropriate to reopen that discussion again in the General Discussion forum.

RT check PM.  

Thanks Lusche and Bronk....

Capt?  Good luck...Walmart has Nomex suits on sale....you may want to hop on over ...this one looks like it may get hot. And on that Note.....back to my Chilli!!!!!

[Bear76]

At the risk of sounding stupid....(which at times is very easy for me to do )...would someone enlighten me....Was my answer wrong? I'm sensing someone tokk abeating and is wondering what happened....

Someone made a bad choice and let a bunch of other someones down and those someones are not happy  

[33Vortex]

Lusche that is a great picture. Complete  material, laughed hard here.

 

[Saxman]

To say it more specifically, the purpose of the escort is just that: Escort. IF those cons are making themselves an active threat and making an aggressive approach on the formation (even half-way decent SA can tell you within seconds) then yes, you engage. However once those cons have been driven off or pass you by your place is by the bombers. Whether they made an attack on your bombers or not you DON'T go off chasing them. You run them off, then return to your position in the formation. If they regroup and come back, you deal with them then.

It's a matter of experience and practice to be able to develop that level of discipline, but guaranteed if you ask around you'll find the squadrons that are most effective as escorts may not have the highest kill totals, but they don't lose their bombers because they STAY with them. You can't protect them if you go chasing off after anything with a red con once it's not longer threatening your charges (and real-life operations in WWII bear the truth of that out).

Also, you left a LOT of information out. Namely that film of the incident (as posted in the respective threads) showed that the enemy planes that "flew through" your formation actually did so NEAR THE EDGE OF ICON RANGE.

[Sincraft]

The whole idea of sending a few at the enemy is to get them to peel off of the planes you are protecting, if they pose no immediate threat then why go after them.

1st - you are going to have to play catch just to get to them.  The BIGGEST newb mistake is to chase the plane that just went through the pack.  Why?  Well think.  You are going to turn around (bleed e), chase after him...he is going to do a much more casual turn than you and come flying past you toward the planes you are escorting, possibly hoing you.  NOW you have to run back again!  More E bled.  Now, he has free reign on the bombers you were supposed to protect.

2nd - If they choose to engage the bombers instead of you, you are in position to hit them while the bombers are protecting themselves.  It's a double whammy on the enemy.

3rd- If you were supposed to fly a mission to a target, ONE less plane doing its job could set the whole thing to the crapper.  The mission leaders many times know exactly (or there abouts) how many planes are needed for the win.

Bottom line - if you choose to peel off from a group you are a mouth breathing quake kiddie who thrives on arcade like experiences possibly deficient in attention span.  WE HAVE ALL DONE IT!  Just keep with the group next time and earn your glory through the group process.

[ROC]

In a scenario, I am often in a position to lead escorts.  Many of you have flown with me.  You know my position.  Escort the Bombers.  The job is to get the bad guys out of firing range of the bombers, once out of range, you have done your job, the bombers cannot be shot.  2k is far enough, they are gone, then the job is handed off to the fighter sweep, if available, to get into a dogfight.  Whether that occurs or not is irrelevant to me, I'll deal with them if they come back.  Ask those who fly with me, I spend the majority of my time directing people back to the escort, breaking them off a fight when they stray too far, most of my groups also tend to be rather successful in escort duty, personally it's a role I favor.

Simple concept, simple order, and many frames have collapsed due to squads chasing bad guys away and getting into a furball.  Why do they collapse?  Simple.  The opposition knows there will be squads that are so eager to get into a dogfight that they can send in a few fighters to strip away the eager aces, leaving the bombers undefended for the second group of fighters laying in wait.  Kudos for the fighter jocks, they had a 5 minute fun filled frame, but failed utterly in their job.

The time spent putting orders together are dependent on participants following those orders, if a player cannot bring that to the event, they don't participate.  Many people confuse the main arena and AvA with the SEA, that is a mistake, it's a totally different form of play. 

There is an opinion.

[Guppy35]

My group in the DGS scenario got bomber escort 3 of 4 frames.  We took great pride in the fact we got the bombers in and out.  It was made clear early and often, you don't go off chasing fighters at the expense of the bombers.  It meant less kills for us, but it felt good getting the buffs home.  The bombers suffered in that scenario when the escorts got stripped away or went off on their own chasing kills.

I'm a furballer, through and through, but that wasn't our job in the scenario.  Doing the job we were assigned was the priority.  We had an alt cap we didn't drop below as well.  Once the bombers were clear and on the way home, if we had the fuel it was time to hunt on our own.

[Shane]

What the guy above me said...

[RedTop]

In a scenario, I am often in a position to lead escorts.  Many of you have flown with me.  You know my position.  Escort the Bombers.  The job is to get the bad guys out of firing range of the bombers, once out of range, you have done your job, the bombers cannot be shot.  2k is far enough, they are gone, then the job is handed off to the fighter sweep, if available, to get into a dogfight.  Whether that occurs or not is irrelevant to me, I'll deal with them if they come back.  Ask those who fly with me, I spend the majority of my time directing people back to the escort, breaking them off a fight when they stray too far, most of my groups also tend to be rather successful in escort duty, personally it's a role I favor.

Simple concept, simple order, and many frames have collapsed due to squads chasing bad guys away and getting into a furball.  Why do they collapse?  Simple.  The opposition knows there will be squads that are so eager to get into a dogfight that they can send in a few fighters to strip away the eager aces, leaving the bombers undefended for the second group of fighters laying in wait.  Kudos for the fighter jocks, they had a 5 minute fun filled frame, but failed utterly in their job.

The time spent putting orders together are dependent on participants following those orders, if a player cannot bring that to the event, they don't participate.  Many people confuse the main arena and AvA with the SEA, that is a mistake, it's a totally different form of play. 

There is an opinion.

Posted on: Today at 08:06:26 PMPosted by: Guppy35  
Insert Quote
My group in the DGS scenario got bomber escort 3 of 4 frames.  We took great pride in the fact we got the bombers in and out.  It was made clear early and often, you don't go off chasing fighters at the expense of the bombers.  It meant less kills for us, but it felt good getting the buffs home.  The bombers suffered in that scenario when the escorts got stripped away or went off on their own chasing kills.

I'm a furballer, through and through, but that wasn't our job in the scenario.  Doing the job we were assigned was the priority.  We had an alt cap we didn't drop below as well.  Once the bombers were clear and on the way home, if we had the fuel it was time to hunt on our own.

These are perfect examples....ROC hit a great point as well about the differance in the AvA , MA , DA. This will probably sound dumb (again) but in my squad...even in the caotic MA , we do Buff escorts some. I've taken 3 or for guys and we've escorted 2 or 3 of our squaddies on some very long runs. I'm talking 100 percent fueled ponies and 2 DT's...It's ALWAYS fly to live and keep the buffs alive. Hard deck of what we set it at...chase em away if you don't kill em right off...pass em by if not a threat. BUT ALWAYS stay with the buffs and keep em alive. Have we been 100 percent succesful? Nope...but we're not bad

[HB555]

How about a buff pilot opinion?
My orders are to kill something on the ground. If I am killed, my target is not destroyed. If my target is not destroyed, my side loses points, possibly the war.
It is a game we play here, but to be effective, each pilot, each squad, each flight, and each side needs to follow the orders given them as everyone has a job assigned them, and each assignment is important. If it wasn't, they (The designers of the event) would not have made your position available in the first place.
If you die trying to do your job, that is one thing, but to run off leaving others to die, you have failed your squad, flight, entire team, but most of all, you have failed yourself.
My opinion is, you were wrong to leave your bombers for the personal fun of engaging in a furball. That just stinks!

[Larry]

Also, you left a LOT of information out. Namely that film of the incident (as posted in the respective threads) showed that the enemy planes that "flew through" your formation actually did so NEAR THE EDGE OF ICON RANGE.

Wrong. At least three enemy fighters passed within 500ft of me and went straight through our squad formation. They may not have been a threat to the bombers at that point but they sure as hell were a threat to us. After that, protecting the bombers went on the back burner for me and protecting my squaddies was more important.