Horde the P-38G!

[crims]

Im going to go stick my neck out .................  Looks like a funny screen shot to me. 

Also looks like most flights in a 38 to me


Crims

[CAP1]

ok....so i just watched the film. what i saw was a guy in a 38 o deth, dive in past part of the horde, to clear the other part of the horde off of a countryman. he did as he intended, got 4 of em in the process, and it looks and sounds like he had fun doing so.

 i fail to see the problem here.

[CAP1]

Well lets leave it at that...you have cleverly proved my point and thank you very much  According to YOU...scotch purposefully gets ganged by flying into situations where it is bound to occur and then posts screenies to show how bad gameplay has deteriorated.  By your own admission you hover at high alt around these fights for amusement and don't dive in to help.  Im assuming when you say "Scotch & co" you mean others in your squad strive for the same thing.  Cool...I'll leave a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk and say how bad society is when someone picks it up and keeps it....

Thanks for explaining from an insider's vantage how this occurs.  I'm sure this behavior builds credibility and doesn't suggest personal agendas...

Delirium...if i had higher alt squaddies i probably wouldn't dive in front of 6-9 enemy cons and blow my e...but that just me (actually from watching you fly..you wouldn't either...you're cleverer than that).  However if i did say "What the hell?" and dove in and died I wouldn't post screenies ridiculing those who killed me and suggest it was somehow their fault for the situation I put myself in.

I feel quite vindicated now...thanks

the more i read your stuff, the more respect i lose for what you type.

he's having FUN. here on the bbs, and in the arena. go have a drink, and come back, and ya might get it. \

[Scotch]

Haha 
I could post a wal mart ad from todays newspaper and falconweenie would construe it into another xx page thread of garbage.

[moot]

I feel quite vindicated now...thanks

See, this is why I didn't buy your token "we're really parallel here", or your fake salute. "Vindicated"?   You just don't get it, and yet (either disingenuously or because it really does escape you) you'll jump at the first opportunity to pretend you've got the high ground.. You're after the last word, not getting to the truth.  I don't have that problem, i cant relate to that.

Thanks for explaining from an insider's vantage how this occurs.  I'm sure this behavior builds credibility and doesn't suggest personal agendas...

?? Agendas?  You mean playing russian roulette is an agenda?   You're the guy at the head of a mega squad, and we're the guys in a motley crew of random furballers who'll switch to wherever the fight is, and you're saying we have an agenda? We can't even fly formation in scenarios, nevermind in the MA, and you're saying we have agendas?

However if i did say "What the hell?" and dove in and died I wouldn't post screenies ridiculing those who killed me and suggest it was somehow their fault for the situation I put myself in.

That's not the point.. One 38G gets totally swarmed.. It's just one instance of the dozens or hundreds that happen all over AH, all day.  Where's your pigeon holing Guppy35 (and BaldEagl, Nilsen, and dozens/hundreds of other players) along with Scotch?  It's nowhere because you're after Scotch here, the messenger, not the damn truth of how ridiculously lame the path of least resistance gameplay is.  You're letting your dislike for Scotch get in the way of objective argument. And you call others biased and say they've got agendas. 

"Vindicated"   LOL  Did we just step on the set of Spartacus or Gladiator or something?

[BaldEagl]

Falconwing, that screenshot is a prime example of what the MA's have degraded into no matter how the situation developed.  I spent a fair amount of last camp diving into those exact types of situations myself just for fun because they are the only types of fighting left in the MA's for the most part.

I posted earlier in this thread about fighting against six in a Zeke.  That started out as me on two, then three, then four, then five, then six.  Had a couple of friendlies not flown in who knows how many I'd have been facing.  This happened between bases where opposing radar rings met.  Answer me in all honesty:  Do you really advocate that a fight should be six or more on one? 

If Scotch dove in and lost his e at an enemy base does that now suddenly justify six or more on one?  It seems that's what you're saying.  Obviously there were other enemy's around that a few of those could have gone after but they chose not to in order to gang the single guy who came in actually wanting to play/fight.

Yes, that screenie is a perfect representation of the MA's and a player like youself, the CO of a large squad, should be doing more to disuade this type of play rather than supporting it.

[FALCONWING]

See, this is why I didn't buy your token "we're really parallel here", or your fake salute. "Vindicated"?   You just don't get it, and yet (either disingenuously or because it really does escape you) you'll jump at the first opportunity to pretend you've got the high ground.. You're after the last word, not getting to the truth.  I don't have that problem, i cant relate to that.?? Agendas?  You mean playing russian roulette is an agenda?   You're the guy at the head of a mega squad, and we're the guys in a motley crew of random furballers who'll switch to wherever the fight is, and you're saying we have an agenda? We can't even fly formation in scenarios, nevermind in the MA, and you're saying we have agendas? That's not the point.. One 38G gets totally swarmed.. It's just one instance of the dozens or hundreds that happen all over AH, all day.  Where's your pigeon holing Guppy35 (and BaldEagl, Nilsen, and dozens/hundreds of other players) along with Scotch?  It's nowhere because you're after Scotch here, the messenger, not the damn truth of how ridiculously lame the path of least resistance gameplay is.  You're letting your dislike for Scotch get in the way of objective argument. And you call others biased and say they've got agendas. 

"Vindicated"   LOL  Did we just step on the set of Spartacus or Gladiator or something?

Moot I dont think you grasp what certain words mean...you have said before in posts English is not your native language so I truly understand..to further our discussion...

Parallel: when i say we are talking parallel I DON'T mean we are in agreement...I mean our thoughts/beliefs are NOT intersecting (crossing paths)...i.e. you don't get what I am trying to say....

Contrive:
con·trive (kn-trv)
v. con·trived, con·triv·ing, con·trives
v.tr.
1. To plan with cleverness or ingenuity; devise.
2. To invent or fabricate, especially by improvisation

So when i suggest a screenshot is contrived, I am in essence saying i believed it was set up or caused to occur.

Vindicate
vin·di·cate 
Pronunciation: \ˈvin-də-ˌkāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): vin·di·cat·ed; vin·di·cat·ing
Etymology: Latin vindicatus, past participle of vindicare to lay claim to, avenge, from vindic-, vindex claimant, avenger
Date: circa 1571
1obsolete : to set free : deliver
2: avenge
3 a: to free from allegation or blame b (1): confirm , substantiate (2): to provide justification or defense for : justify c: to protect from attack or encroachment : defend

This one is harder because I am using the 3rd definition of the word.  In your post you essentially confirmed what I suggested with the screenshot being contrived.  So I used the word "vindicate" in its more colloquial sense to basically say I was substantiated in my thought process.

I don't mind trying to have a discussion with you but its hard when you don't seem to understand the words I'm using....

Back to our discussion...you are correct that Scotch is not someone I think much of...but he is more in the category of "I could care less"
You are correct that I think highly of Dan (Guppy) but Dan was a true furballer and he won my respect despite many differences here on the bbs...he was also a really decent guy best i could tell.

My bigger issue has to do with the trolling of the bbs with fabricated screenshots with exaggerated claims and insults...you (and others) argument seems to stem around "improviing gameplay".  I have no issue with that but lets have an honest discussion with an honest thread.  Instead you and others choose to suggest that no one dare question Scotch. 

Instead:

Mazz - insults my squaddies
Moot - Mentions my argument (long settled) with widewing multiple times
Delirium - Brings up number of members in my squad
Scotch - acts like a 3 yo with name calling

Moot you are a member of the DFC as are the other responders (no don't go start another thread on the DFC bbs about me)   You are a "club" formed with a purpose.  Sooo what is the purpose of the DFC? Got it? Okay...That is your agenda.  When I say "agenda" that is what I am referring to.  Oddly enough I am not against the DFC.  I actually think the idea is a positive one...but the way the message is being disemminated is what I find annoying.  Very negative.  Always someone else's fault that someone gets ganged, horded etc.

I guess the Muppets are trying to be like the BKs of old without the skill level, respect or sense of humor...but as the squad with the most members in DFC they seem to think they have a leg to stand on when it comes to leadership...it is a shame for the concept of the DFC imho. 

[FALCONWING]

Falconwing, that screenshot is a prime example of what the MA's have degraded into no matter how the situation developed.  I spent a fair amount of last camp diving into those exact types of situations myself just for fun because they are the only types of fighting left in the MA's for the most part.

I posted earlier in this thread about fighting against six in a Zeke.  That started out as me on two, then three, then four, then five, then six.  Had a couple of friendlies not flown in who knows how many I'd have been facing.  This happened between bases where opposing radar rings met.  Answer me in all honesty:  Do you really advocate that a fight should be six or more on one? 

If Scotch dove in and lost his e at an enemy base does that now suddenly justify six or more on one?  It seems that's what you're saying.  Obviously there were other enemy's around that a few of those could have gone after but they chose not to in order to gang the single guy who came in actually wanting to play/fight.

Yes, that screenie is a perfect representation of the MA's and a player like youself, the CO of a large squad, should be doing more to disuade this type of play rather than supporting it.

Bald please read my posts carefully and point out where i advocated ganging?  Seriously one quote from this entire thread....ths whole catfight revolves around the fact I watched the film that was posted and "dared" to note that the screenie was convenient and the claims were exaggerated...

[moot]

I have a good handle on english here.  I laugh at calling it vindication because of its connotations. Would you really use that word in reality?  When you use a word in any language, it's common to choose one that doesn't leave room for error, that's not ambiguous or otherwise vague in conveying what you really, precisely mean.. Vindicated implies the rest of its definition, which is definitely comical in this argument. That's semantics.

Let's just get to the point.  The screenshot and movie wasn't set up.  It just happens to be a nearly perfect illustration of what happens every evening we get together and fly against the hordes.  I have one from that same night where a group of players are literally flying their CV planes like drones on ballistic missile trajectories aimed at the airfield strat targets.  Flying behind them, shooting at them, flying next to and nearly on their 12 as they were flaming did nothing to shake them out of that win the war turpor.  That wasn't set up either.  Maybe you're a bit paranoid here.  The hordes are definitely not something anyone who's played any amount of time in the LW arenas in the last couple of years to question whether they actually happen.  They happen, and they happen often.  Just off the top of my head here.. Look up some of Wotan's posts.  He noted it too, and that's back in ~2002.  You could easily get the same assessment from Fariz.  Or Fester.

"Guppy won your respect".  Again, are you saying you would argue against someone not on the merit of their arguments but on how much you liked or disliked them?  Again.. this is your idea of not being biased?

And then you try and bring my being in the DFC into this.  Now that ticks me off.  Let me put it this way.. If a cop is having a nice damn beer at the bar, and you start rattling his cage and trying to poke at the uniform he isn't even wearing at the time.. Do you expect him to take you seriously? Not to think he's got someone trying hard to be a pr**k in front of him? 
That said - The DFC agenda is to do what it can to improve the quality of gameplay.  Now we've gone over this before, but let me re-iterate it for you once again.  The point of the game is air combat.  Air combat is a martial art.  It's just a simulation of the real thing, but the dynamics are the same, no matter how fake the pixels are in that make-believe dimension. You cannot seriously combat efficiently without considering both tactics and strategy.  The whole furball/win-the-war dichotomy is bogus. The two are sides of the same coin.  Strategy and tactics work hand in hand.  One of the things the DFC would like to do is enrich the gameplay quality by impressing on all players the value in learning proper BFM, ACM, general tactical rules of thumbs, strategic possibilities, etc.  All the elements that will fill their toolbox with more means to reach whatever their ends are, not the least of which is having fun.
Why would these starchy formal academic sounding disciplines tantamount to having fun?  Because they give the players more chances of success.  They allow players to get into more fights, rather than sit out anything mildly difficult.  They will get the players to spread out for more challenging fights than just piling up on one low con while 10 more are coming with altitude, because they figure it might be the only kill they're going to get out of the sortie, since it's really not in their hands that the outcome of the fight rests, but in whatever the initial relative handicaps (altitude, speed, position, numbers, plane types, etc) are at T=0.  IOW, without the skills that the players will WANT to learn by being impressed on, by being exposed to them, the game is going to keep getting more and more decided by the planes, and not the pilots at their controls. 

I think at this point you get what I'm getting at.

The muppets trying to be like the BKs.  ... I don't know where you pull this crap out of, but it doesn't smell good.  The muppets aren't trying to be anyone. How you got the impression that there's such a behavior seems to be all your fabrication.. Whether projection or whatever, it says more about you than us.
And the squad doesn't have any major lead on the DFC's intention. You are trying real freakin hard to discredit the club.. That's low.

And when I mentionned Widewing, it was in analogy to that instance of you making a totally erroneous assumption from lack of information, the same way you're apparently doing when you say that hordes are not prevalent in the LW arenas.  An accurate call.

[JunkyII]

 So many big words wait our we having an argument on who can use the best words, vindication connotation

[moot]

Take your illiterate arse to dictionary.com if it's so hard talking to non-native english speakers.

[JunkyII]

Take your illiterate arse to dictionary.com if it's so hard talking to non-native english speakers.

I was just joking, the reason for it being you sound like your trying to out debate him by using bigger words. But im sorry moot that my jokes arent up to your high standards 




screw the salute go ______ yourself ( fill the blank as you please )

[Delirium]

Delirium - Brings up number of members in my squad

Is it slander to bring up the number of the guys in your squad? No, it simply sheds light on your reference point.

Before you claim it is some vast conspiracy of secret groups to attack you, I am not in the DFC.

I'm not in the Muppets either, I recently left that group. Regardless of how you feel about that squad and their beliefs, I feel they do more to encourage competitive gameplay than any of the 'mega squads do'.

I have an idea, what about an exchange program? Furball squads trade a guy with one of the toolshedder squads for a month to allow both sides to see their point of view. I think it would be great, would make for a good time.

[JunkyII]

Is it slander to bring up the number of the guys in your squad? No, it simply sheds light on your reference point.

Before you claim it is some vast conspiracy of secret groups to attack you, I am not in the DFC.

I'm not in the Muppets either, I recently left that group. Regardless of how you feel about that squad and their beliefs, I feel they do more to encourage competitive gameplay than any of the 'mega squads do'.

I have an idea, what about an exchange program? Furball squads trade a guy with one of the toolshedder squads for a month to allow both sides to see their point of view. I think it would be great, would make for a good time.

You might be getting at something, could you handle my sqauddies belligerent conversations on a saturday nigt after they been drinking bottles of Jack and downing cases of Beer?   

[moot]

I was just joking, the reason for it being you sound like your trying to out debate him by using bigger words. But im sorry moot that my jokes arent up to your high standards 
screw the salute go ______ yourself ( fill the blank as you please )

Bye