Trim question

[WOZ30BAT]

 I know this may be a dumb question. I use CT but would like to learn to use manual trim, but I'm not a "real" pilot or such. My question is: how do u know when u r in trim? I tried using CT before a fight & then switching to manual during a fight or steep dive. But, I think I get my plane out of "whack" & end up in tower. I see using elevator trim a lot & I've used aileron trim when I've lost a wing. How often are the different types of trim used (elevator, rudder, & aileron) other than pulling out of a dive?

[Stoney]

My advice would depend on what type of aircraft you fly most of the time.  When I fly P-47s, my primary ride, I always fly with manual trim.  The aircraft is pretty stable and only requires small trim changes, for the most part, for any speed and/or maneuver.  This allows me to make very aggressive vertical maneuvers without the combat trim getting the controls out of whack as I come over the top.  If I'm flying a 109, for example, combat trim is always on, as that plane is very difficult for me to keep in trim, regardless of what type of flying I'm doing.

Ultimately, you'll know the aircraft is properly trimmed if you can take your hand off the stick, and the plane stays at the same attitude as when you had your hand on the stick.  For example, during a climb, you'll know if you're in trim if, when you release the stick, the pitch attitude stays the same, you don't have any roll, and the ball is centered.  If you're flying straight and level, release the stick, and if you remain straight and level, you're in trim.  If she wants to fall off on a wing, adjust the aileron trim.  If she wants to climb or descend, adjust the pitch trim, etc.

Another technique is to map one of your stick or throttle buttons as a combat trim toggle.  Turn it on to automatically trim the aircraft, and then turn it off when desired. 

[Motherland]

I use manual trim in all aircraft. I just like to do it.
You're aircraft is 'in trim' when you can let the stick go and the aircraft keeps going the same way.
As Stoney said, it depends on what you're flying as to how much you have to be actively trimming. In the 109, my fingers are constantly, subconsciously moving the trim wheels. In the 190 I can, for the most part, set it and not worry about it unless I go through a significant change in speed.

[moot]

Wozbat what matters is getting the plane to behave like you want it to. Whether that's one particular trim or another.
Another trick to add to the ones Stoney mentions, is the trim set command. It's the period  "."  key by default.  Push that key at any time, and the plane will set its trim to match whatever you're telling the plane to do at that instant.  So... for example, say you're coming down from a very slow vertical reverse, and you want to nose down for a shot, but the Combat Trim is putting the nose way high. If you pushed forward on the stick right then and there, and pressed Trim Set, the trim would change to a more nose down setting, as you commanded it to.  This is a lot faster than fiddling around trying to find the right amount of trim up/down.

[Stoney]

This is a lot faster than fiddling around trying to find the right amount of trim up/down.

Kind of defeats the purpose for manual trim doesn't it? 

[moot]

Well.. I'd rather have manual trim controls than not. Seems like another tool from HT to help reduce the micromanagement workload.

[Ghosth]

Well stoney, any tool that does the same job with less effort and managment is a good tool in my opinion.

Doesn't take anything away from manual trim if thats what you choose to do.
But yes it does make life easier while allowing more control than Combat Trim.

[WOZ30BAT]

Wow!! Always wondered what that trim set command was used for lol.

[fuzeman]

Wow!! Always wondered what that trim set command was used for lol.

From the readme209.txt file:
Added a new Trim Set function.  This a supplement to the manual trim system.  At the instant
you press the trim set button, it will see how much aileron, elevator, and aileron input you
are giving and feed in trim to achieve neutral controls.  The default key for this function
is the <.> key.  If you have ever remapped any of your keys, you will need to manually
map this function.

[Stoney]

Well stoney, any tool that does the same job with less effort and managment is a good tool in my opinion.

To both you and Moot--I wasn't trying to imply that it was "cheating" or anything to use the trim set key.  The OP wanted to know how to fly with manual trim, so recommending the trim set key, I felt, was not really answering his question.

[moot]

I know, that was the only reply I could think of.   The two function have overlap, but you wouldn't really want to remove either.  Using the set trim key helps give him the answer if he's ever lost.  It helps show him what he should have trimmed to, if he looks at the trim indicators as he pushes Set Trim.  They'll go from where he manually set them to, to what they should have been set to.
Seemed like a helpful extra clue.

[uptown]

My question is: Is it really worth the effort in flying with CT off. I've tryed it a few times and I'm constantly adjusting as alt and speed changes. Then when I engage with a enemy con I end up blowing the shot because my aircraft is all out of wack.

I know that a good portion of the top sticks fly with it off (or so they say), but is it really that much or an advantage? I had a conversation with Ren (trainer) in the TA last week and he was of the opinion that it's not that much of a help.

My stick and throttle are set up for manual trim but I only use it now to pull out of compression, which doesn't happen too often in a P51.

I plan to transition to P38s full time at some point and would like to know if manual trim is a must in that aircraft...more so then others.

[Stoney]

My question is: Is it really worth the effort in flying with CT off.

Like I said in my original post, I judge my use of CT based on what I'm flying.  I can't keep up with the trim in the 109 if I'm maneuvering hard, so I use CT.  In the P-38, with zero net torque/p-factor effects, I definitely turn the CT off, especially since I'll probably be working the vertical really hard, and will want the trim to stay where I put it.  Additionally, if I lose an engine, I want to be able to counteract the asymmetrical thrust created by the good engine, and CT will constantly put the rudder trim back to normal unless you turn it off.

I've got rudder and pitch trim slaved to a couple of hats on my throttle.  If ever I get a new stick, I'll slave aileron trim to a hat on it.  I think having buttons on the stick for each trim type is mandatory if you're using manual trim, as you'll need to keep your hands off the keyboard.

[uptown]

OK Stoney...Thankyou. 

[Steve]

OK Stoney...Thankyou. 

To CT a 51 or not?   I know this answer.