The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?

[Crash Orange]

Its is incomprehensible to me that people are much interested in anything other than killing a manned machine. When you blow up a building, ain't no one at home throwing their joystick across the room in frustration. That sucks!

Not true, sir! Kill one enemy and one enemy curses and throws his joystick. Sneak around to pork troops at the base the horde was hoping to use to take your base (preferably right after your buddy killed their goon) and twenty enemies curse and throw their joysticks! 

But in general, yeah, I understand what you mean. There's not much point to an online multiplayer game if you aren't taking on human opponents.

[BnZs]

I don't think most of the complaints are about numbers per se. 3v3 and 50v50 furballs are both acceptable to most.

When you take what people and remove the elitist sillyness and "back in the good old days" rhetoric, the valid complaint you are left with involves those times in the MA when one can seemingly take their choice of being one of 3 fighting 20, or can choose to go to the other side of the map and be one of 20 fighting 3. Granted, the complainers are exaggerating, it is not like this ALL of the time, but it does happen.

1000 people on a small map does not work. You are really arguing against yourself. On one hand you say you do not like larger maps, Larger maps were created because of how large the arena population was becoming. 2nd you you argue that you want everyone in one arena, but then complain about the "horde" because of safety in numbers. Well more people in one arena makes more numbers. So it sounds to me like you are grasping at straws trying to find a justification for your wanting to go back to 1 arena.


HiTech

[BnZs]

When some planes are clearly more effective than others, people will choose those planes more often. The speed to force or refuse engagements is clearly desirable. You can't fault people for making those choices IMO, though one might laud someone for choosing something more challenging.

A recurrent theme I see in complaints about the MA is runners. Always I wonder why the complainers do not choose a faster plane so they can force the issue.

Actually you need to look no farther then your own stats to see how the game has changed.

Feb 09 you have just under 600 kills with 80%+ in either the K4 or perk planes (mostly 262). If we go back just 2 years to tour 85 (Feb 07) while you still use the tempest and other rides to skew the #'s we have a % of hops in the ki-84 109F4 and various jugs. go back another year and we see a lot of the nikki and ki-84 with a sprinkling of zekes and other mid eny rides. go back to 2005 and your mostly an la-7 driver.

So we can see over 4 years the progression from what most would call an "easy mode" ride to a progressing furballer to more of an e fighter and now really full circle. None of this is meant as any type of attack at all, just an look at the observable stats we have. Now without question your both responding to changes in how you perceive the game...and how you perceive the game being played (2 different things in my mind)...but no question we see huge variations in plane use...all away from an air combat mode and more to an exploitive air superiority mode. To me this is a microcosm of game play at large with many seasoned sticks following the same path. Personally I think that any use of a perk plane should void all scoring for the tour or the score criteria should change....

[humble]

I thought you could care less about score? If this is true, why does it matter ?

I don't, but I feel that "score" greatly impacts the game overall.

[shreck]

I don't, but I feel that "score" greatly impacts the game overall.

CC  I get your point, although I would say the majority of players could care less about score. All you have to do is look at the score pages and see who is there month in and month out, it is clearly the minority!   

[Steve]

1000 people on a small map does not work. You are really arguing against yourself. On one hand you say you do not like larger maps, Larger maps were created because of how large the arena population was becoming. 2nd you you argue that you want everyone in one arena, but then complain about the "horde" because of safety in numbers. Well more people in one arena makes more numbers. So it sounds to me like you are grasping at straws trying to find a justification for your wanting to go back to 1 arena.
HiTech

Nope,  I didn't complain about the horde. I complained about the horde hiding in some corner of the map, taking undefended bases. On a smaller map, as I have already said, there is nowhere for these megasquad-toolshedder-noe-fight skirters to hide. Do I want 1 late war arena?  Heck yes.  Am I saying I know better than you what is best for the community? heck no. Just voicing my ideas.

[Saurdaukar]

A recurrent theme I see in complaints about the MA is runners. Always I wonder why the complainers do not choose a faster plane so they can force the issue.

Well, the ancillary issue is that getting caught running from a fight used to be embarrassing for the player in question.  Today, there are plenty of people who think its "smart" flying.  Each to his own.

In any event, the primary issue is that, although forcing engagements based upon speed and acceleration is obviously a solution to catching the players who wont fight, that limits your hanger options to 1944+ aircraft.

Personally, I love the 109F4.  Unfortunately, I dont really fly it anymore.  It simply isnt fast enough to force a fight.

The only way I can get a con comfortable enough to engage the F, frankly speaking, is to up at a nearly-vulched field and fly around at 50ft AGL.  Even then, you've got about six seconds to close the deal before almost every aircraft in the set can accelerate out of gun range.

The only real reason I fly the K, instead, is because I know there arent many planes it cant force to fight.  Its just not my first choice and thats the limiting factor.

[Lusche]

Personally, I love the 109F4.  Unfortunately, I dont really fly it anymore.  It simply isnt fast enough to force a fight.

Hm. I have seen frequent requests lateley to remove all EW & MW planes from LW anyway...

[SEraider]

A lot of cases the game is harder.

[Ack-Ack]

Hm. I have seen frequent requests lateley to remove all EW & MW planes from LW anyway...

How boring.


ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

Hm. I have seen frequent requests lateley to remove all EW & MW planes from LW anyway...

Those players should remove themselves form the game then.   The Arena setups, planes aren't the problem, it's the players. 

[xNOVAx]

I don't, but I feel that "score" greatly impacts the game overall.

I agree.. 2 things I'd personally like to see removed..

1) The top score farmers on the home page each tour..
2) XXXXX Player landed X Kills in a XXXX to everyone in the arena. (maybe show it only to your squadies or something.. I think the 'attaboys' are getting out of hand overall)

[The Fugitive]

Nope,  I didn't complain about the horde. I complained about the horde hiding in some corner of the map, taking undefended bases. On a smaller map, as I have already said, there is nowhere for these megasquad-toolshedder-noe-fight skirters to hide. Do I want 1 late war arena?  Heck yes.  Am I saying I know better than you what is best for the community? heck no. Just voicing my ideas.

I was in orange last night with the trinity map. The typical fight was going on at A1, but the rook "horde" was rolling up the east coast. The fights over there were very lopsided as the bish had there hands full at A1 and some fights up north against the knights. A mission was put up to take 222 or some other base in the NE from the bish. They hit 20 guys are were still calling for more !!! The mission had spots for 70 guys !!!! This is whats wrong with the people in this game. Mean while rooks are in a stalemate with the knights in the west. Tried joining that fight but nobody like to fight, kept dragging us to all their alt friends. A1 was a furball, and we have the "horde" looking for more people to take one base 

I went to blue, a small map, and with fights on all fronts....seeing there are all nice and close together.. I had a lot of fun dieing and killing.  No place to hide was good for fights, but so was having another arena to switch to.

[BnZs]

I believe there are circumstances in which it is perfectly reasonable to use a speed advantage to disengage. If ,as a community, we ever seriously decided that disengaging is always verboten, the plane variety would become more monotonous than it is now. Basically only craft with light wingloadings would be used. The A6M and Hurri would be dominant, with a few folks savvy in E fighting running around in Spits, G2s, and Ki-84s. Many "planes of fame" would be utter hangar queens. Desirable? Its all a matter of opinion I suppose.

Specifically Saurd, you mention not being able to catch anything in the 109F4. With all due respect, this is the sort of complaint I see as whiny and hypocritical. I will explain why. The 109F4 is a very good turning bird with a decent climb rate. It can turn with a smaller turn radius than a late-model Spit. Most planes that enjoy a top speed advantage over a 109F4 are inferior in angles fighting. If you are going to fly this bird, you should realize that the price you pay for having an advantage over most things in a turn fight is that you must use strategy to force them into said turnfight...just as the guy in a P-51 must choose the right circumstances, use his energy well, and force you to make a mistake to stand a prayer of getting a shot in on your nimble little Fritz. What is so "horrible" about MA conditions forcing you to fly a Kurt instead of a Fritz? The only downside I can think of is that the Kurt doesn't turn as sweetly and can't simply saddle up on nearly everything it meets as well as the Fritz can. Don't you think its abit much to want to fly around in a light little kite that maneuvers extremely well, and then expect those in far less maneuverable but faster fighters to willing fight you in a way that gives you a huge advantage?

Note: I'm not saying I haven't seen circumstances where I thought another pilot was being absurdly timid. A P-51 running from your 109 F-4...possibly reasonable. A P-51 running away from my 190 A-5... But ultimately their lack of savvy and aggression costs them, not me.

Well, the ancillary issue is that getting caught running from a fight used to be embarrassing for the player in question.  Today, there are plenty of people who think its "smart" flying.  Each to his own.

In any event, the primary issue is that, although forcing engagements based upon speed and acceleration is obviously a solution to catching the players who wont fight, that limits your hanger options to 1944+ aircraft.

Personally, I love the 109F4.  Unfortunately, I dont really fly it anymore.  It simply isnt fast enough to force a fight.

The only way I can get a con comfortable enough to engage the F, frankly speaking, is to up at a nearly-vulched field and fly around at 50ft AGL.  Even then, you've got about six seconds to close the deal before almost every aircraft in the set can accelerate out of gun range.

The only real reason I fly the K, instead, is because I know there arent many planes it cant force to fight.  Its just not my first choice and thats the limiting factor.

[Saurdaukar]

I went to blue, a small map, and with fights on all fronts....

I flew like crap in Blue last night. 

Specifically Saurd, you mention not being able to catch anything in the 109F4. With all due respect, this is the sort of complaint I see as whiny and hypocritical. I will explain why. The 109F4 is a very good turning bird with a decent climb rate. It can turn with a smaller turn radius than a late-model Spit. Most planes that enjoy a top speed advantage over a 109F4 are inferior in angles fighting. If you are going to fly this bird, you should realize that the price you pay for having an advantage over most things in a turn fight is that you must use strategy to force them into said turnfight...just as the guy in a P-51 must choose the right circumstances, use his energy well, and force you to make a mistake to stand a prayer of getting a shot in on your nimble little Fritz.

Im not sure why you think its whiny or hypocritical.  There is a lot more to ACM than turn radius and top speed.  You know this.  Winding up in a situation where you must rely either one of those two, exclusively, to survive probably means you did something wrong.

There are plenty of ways to kill a smaller, more nimble plane than extending for a sector at a time just as there are plenty of ways to kill a faster, less nimble plane than yanking back on the stick.

What is so "horrible" about MA conditions forcing you to fly a Kurt instead of a Fritz? The only downside I can think of is that the Kurt doesn't turn as sweetly and can't simply saddle up on nearly everything it meets as well as the Fritz can.

I dont think I used the word horrible, but I do think I explained my rationale.  By all accounts, the K is the better aircraft.  I have a personal affection for the F.  And, as stated, MA conditions today make the F uncompetitive.

Don't you think its abit much to want to fly around in a light little kite that maneuvers extremely well, and then expect those in far less maneuverable but faster fighters to willing fight you in a way that gives you a huge advantage?

I dont think its a bit much for players to log in and want to fight, regardless of circumstances.  However, we seem to be having two different discussions.  Youre envisioning an AC using its strengths to its advantage.  Nothing wrong with that.

Im envisioning this scenario: 

Engage bad guy.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you after you disengage.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you after you disengage.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you after you disengage.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you after you disengage.  Reversal.  Bad guy runs.  You follow.  Bad guy keeps running.  You get bored and turn away.  Bad guy turns to get behind you.  Reversal.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Etcetera.