Originally posted by Booky:
Mav,
Where do you get your info? I just ask because I blasted a tank with a 50cal and it tore it to shreds. Now it was a old tank and I was useing the standard tripod-mounted 50cal that the USMC uses, and HE rounds. But I must say that it was just 1 gun and it tor that tank apart from about 2000 yds. Maybe a totally different type of 50cal, I don't know.
Booky.
I get my info from having been in the tank business. I was an Armor Officer in the Army. Check my profile.
If you check some of the web sites that are around and look at the thickness of the armor of most WW2 tanks vs the penetration capabilities of the 50 you can see for yourself that most hits will only scratch the tank.
There ARE weak and thin spots on tanks. The Germans liked to have a crew escape hatch on the side of their tanks between the wheels and track. That hatch was fairly thin but a rather difficult target. Another weak point was the vision slits in many tanks. A shell might not penetrate fully but the fragments certainly could be a very unwelcome surprise for the crewman behind the slit. The top deck of a tank has also been the thinnest armor on it. After all the main threat to a tank in WW2 was from the ground large caliber weapons, followed by artillery.
The grill area was also thin but required multiple hits to inmsure penetration. ANY external fuel stores on the vehicle were obviously a danger to the tank as they could be set afire by a MG and the burning fuel could run down into the tank like a giant molotov.
As to what you shot up on the range. If it was a boxy bugger it was an Armored personell carrier. The old M113 was made of aluminum and could be penetrated by a 7.62 NATO round with a square on hit. A 50 would sail through lke it wasn't there.
One of the last tank ranges I was on had soem old M48 hulks that had been trucked in. Even though there were no tracks on them and the engin compartments were empty we were given permission to hit them with 105mm training rounds. There were 2 types of ammo we used. The first was SABOT or the main anti tank round with a discarding sabot. It would go through one side of the hull on a side shot but not the other side. While the round was at full velocity it wasn't even a hardened steel penetrator much less the depleted uranium of the "go to war" ammo. The low grade steel would fragmentr easily after penetrating one side of the engine compartment.
The other ammo we used was the HEAT or high explosive anti-tank round that in "go to war" ammo would have a shaped charge in it. In the training rounds they were simply solid projectiles. These looked like a giant semi wadcutter round with a pipe welded on the nose. These rounds would scoop out a chunk of hull armor but wouldn't penetrate unless you could put at least 3 hits in the same area, virtually the same spot.
Even the HEAT round at much slower velocity than the SABOT has MUCH more energy than the 50 and it won't penetrate the thin engine compartment side armor on an old M48.
There are also many other "boxes" on a tank for the purpose of carrying tools, parts and other suplies. These can easily be penetrated by a 50 as they are just sheet metal containers.
As to killing later WW2 German tanks, the Soviets had a plan they followed with anti-tank gun units. They were using "small" guns like a 75mm. They would target a single tank with about 5 or 6 guns. They tried to fire as close to simultaneously as possible to use the "can opener" effect of the rounds hitting. That way they could be fairly certain of a kill. That came from the history of the batle of Kursk. Source: The Tigers Are Burning. A history of the Battle of Kursk. It contains many interviews of the Soviets who fought the battle. I don't recall the publisher off hand. Again the 75's had MUCH more punch than the 50's do and a single hit on frontal armor had no guarantee of a penetrating hit.
A final note. The US main battle tank, the Sheman, had a dismal record of killing German Armor at any range over 600 to 800 yards with a frontal shot. Doctrine was to get in close and try to hit the enemy tank from the side or better yet, rear to get penetration with their main gun. That did change later in the war when they were upgraded to a high velocity cannon. Still frontal shots were a gamble even then.
Mav
