Dropping Flaps??

[hitech]

Thorism:

i however hope that you will likewise put more thought into the things that strike me and apparently many others as obviously incorrect.

Do you have even an inkling of how insulting this is?

HiTech

[thorsim]

i had no intention of insulting you, i apologize. 

i was intending to communicate that i am informed and concerned and not somebody arbitrarily talking out of my "duff" or someone too lazy to get off that "duff" and find the data to support the positions he expresses.

it was not a reflection on your apparent level of concern (which is quite impressive actually)

it was more a statement that the things that may strike me as "obviously incorrect" are well obvious and that i will be only commenting on such things, we are talking about a 100% difference in speed here.  not 5-15% quibbling. 

i meant to convey that i am not completely ignorant of the matters we are discussing, which is how one feels they are considered when they are apparently dismissed in a discussion where they have only brought up valid concerns.

once again i was speaking of how your comments made me feel, not my feelings about you or your product.

no offense 

T

Thorism:
Do you have even an inkling of how insulting this is?

HiTech

[Yeager]

I remember, not long after the game started, maybe a year and a half into it, two large luftwhiner squads defected back to WBs because they kept getting their tails handed to them in-game by USAAF and RAF players.  Perhaps it was flaps all along

[gyrene81]

I remember, not long after the game started, maybe a year and a half into it, two large luftwhiner squads defected back to WBs because they kept getting their tails handed to them in-game by USAAF and RAF players.  Perhaps it was flaps all along

Luftwhiners? I was going to stay out of this because it's my squadmates issue, but you sir deserve a reply from someone with no respect for your apparent tenure here...as in I don't care how long you have been an armchair toon ace pile-it. If I happen to break rule # whatever, my apologies in advance.

This was a relatively decent discussion with relevant information being discussed until you brought your juvenile attempt at superior attitude into the mix. There are people who believe that if even one aspect at any type of realism applies to a single element then all other elements should be equally realistically portrayed. Just because they choose to speak up does not give you license to belittle their efforts, especially in an instance where said individual has presented his point in respectful terms. Now unless you have something worth while to contribute to this discussion, go back to your romper room and play armchair toon pile-it quietly.

[Yeager]

go back to your romper room and play armchair toon pile-it quietly.

this IS my romper room  

[1Boner]

i had no intention of insulting you, i apologize. 

i was intending to communicate that i am informed and concerned and not somebody arbitrarily talking out of my "duff" or someone too lazy to get off that "duff" and find the data to support the positions he expresses.

it was not a reflection on your apparent level of concern (which is quite impressive actually)

it was more a statement that the things that may strike me as "obviously incorrect" are well obvious and that i will be only commenting on such things, we are talking about a 100% difference in speed here.  not 5-15% quibbling. 

i meant to convey that i am not completely ignorant of the matters we are discussing, which is how one feels they are considered when they are apparently dismissed in a discussion where they have only brought up valid concerns.

once again i was speaking of how your comments made me feel, not my feelings about you or your product.

no offense 

T

Is your in game name Zeus??

[thorsim]

I remember, not long after the game started, maybe a year and a half into it, two large luftwhiner squads defected back to WBs because they kept getting their tails handed to them in-game by USAAF and RAF players.  Perhaps it was flaps all along

you really saw two large squads leave in frustration and did not wonder about the FMs ???

you think that that is still somehow amusing ???

[thorsim]

Is your in game name Zeus??

no, it's not odin either ...

care to share why you are so curious what my "in-game" name is ?

[hitech]

Luftwhiners? I was going to stay out of this because it's my squadmates issue, but you sir deserve a reply from someone with no respect for your apparent tenure here...as in I don't care how long you have been an armchair toon ace pile-it. If I happen to break rule # whatever, my apologies in advance.

This was a relatively decent discussion with relevant information being discussed until you brought your juvenile attempt at superior attitude into the mix. There are people who believe that if even one aspect at any type of realism applies to a single element then all other elements should be equally realistically portrayed. Just because they choose to speak up does not give you license to belittle their efforts, especially in an instance where said individual has presented his point in respectful terms. Now unless you have something worth while to contribute to this discussion, go back to your romper room and play armchair toon pile-it quietly.

Wow; Can you bite that hook any harder?

Also gyrene I would say this thread has been anything but

This was a relatively decent discussion

and quite frankly has very much the "Luftwhiner" feel. Now also understand I do not think the "Luftwhiners" are any different than the "Spitdweebs' or any other group of people who are very biased in what they ask for because they simply want  their plane to perform better then it current does in the game.

And if you want to know how to spot one, they always ask about 1 plane or group of planes to be made better, and they do not ask about changing any other plane.

HiTech

[hitech]

no, it's not odin either ...

care to share why you are so curious what my "in-game" name is ?

I can answer that question. When A person suddenly shows up on the board and only discusses one topic, but also acts like he is an expert on a subject, and then also obviously fits into the LW biased group, people begin to wonder who he is.

HiTech

[Yeager]

you think that that is still somehow amusing ???

Because there have always been a talented group of players who can OWN me COMPLETELY when they are using a 109 or a 190, REGARDLESS of whatever plane type I am in.  These guys flying these LW types are typically the deadliest players in game and typcially the quietest in-game and on-BBS.  Thats why I never bought into the Luftwhiners complaints.  Oh and Btw their whines never had anything to do with flaps either.  Was usually about guns or engine power.

Having said that, if the flaps on LW crates could deploy at highers speeds than currently modeled then prove it.  If you cant prove it then you need to re-evaluate your "suspicians".

[1Boner]

no, it's not odin either ...

care to share why you are so curious what my "in-game" name is ?

There was a "another" rather condesending "God" who called himself Zeus in LW last night,he was incessently asking everyone to tell "Hitech" to contact him.

He seemed to be under the impression that many of us had a personal relationship with "Hitech".

I told him that I would relay his message to "Hitech" on Wednesday night when I visited his home for his monthly tupperware party. (crazy off the hook party btw)

He seemed satisfied with my response and signed off with "Godbye".

I just assumed it was you, wanting to contact "Hitech" to apologize.

Apparantly I was wrong.




Or was I?  

[thorsim]

i don't believe i ever posted in opposistion to improving any of your FMs hitech.  i noticed an obvious disparity in the game and a thread about it on the boards and asked a question.

want to know what an obstructionist looks like, they ask for unnecessary "proof" about obvious inconsistencies which are already proven to be obvious.  
then ask for more unnecessary proof when the specific pertinent data is put in-front of them,
they bring others "motives" into specific conversations because they are not general,
they quote the same single source of theirs as if it were three because it was copied and printed for 3 different air-forces.  they attempt to defend something they should know is incorrect because they are more comfortable with being steadfastly in error than they are admitting they may be in error in the first place.

you claim you are insulted out of one end of your mouth, ignoring comments you have made to me before, then come back and question my motives again.

now i may be wrong, you may not be obstructing the progress of your product, but that is the impression you are giving me.

of course you may be wrong about me being single minded, unfair, and agenda driven in my observations about your product, i guess that is the impression i am giving you.

time will tell i guess.

Wow; Can you bite that hook any harder?

Also gyrene I would say this thread has been anything but  and quite frankly has very much the "Luftwhiner" feel. Now also understand I do not think the "Luftwhiners" are any different than the "Spitdweebs' or any other group of people who are very biased in what they ask for because they simply want  their plane to perform better then it current does in the game.

And if you want to know how to spot one, they always ask about 1 plane or group of planes to be made better, and they do not ask about changing any other plane.

HiTech

[gyrene81]

Wow; Can you bite that hook any harder?

Also gyrene I would say this thread has been anything but  and quite frankly has very much the "Luftwhiner" feel. Now also understand I do not think the "Luftwhiners" are any different than the "Spitdweebs' or any other group of people who are very biased in what they ask for because they simply want  their plane to perform better then it current does in the game.

And if you want to know how to spot one, they always ask about 1 plane or group of planes to be made better, and they do not ask about changing any other plane.

HiTech

Yeah I bit that hook hard. Doesn't mean I'm a Luftwhiner just because I see some issues with aspects of the LW planes and I say something about it...I see similar issues with the Jap planes. May assumption has always been a lack of written data.

Now, to be brutally honest...the main reason people don't complain about the Allied models is because you guys did a damn good job of getting them as close to right as possible...and I'm betting it's because of the availability of data. I've noticed some minor shortcomings in the Allied plane sets but I also understand the need for compromise in programming...some things just aren't possible. Every flight sim I've played has the same disparities between the well documented U.S. and British aircraft and the not so well documented German, Russian and Japanese aircraft. There isn't a whole lot of German pilot testimony saying they were trained or learned how to do this or that with their planes in combat situations...and I haven't seen a single German pilot after action report that shows where he used his flaps in a situation like I have seen from U.S. pilots.




I do have one question...why does the 190 which has electro mechanical flap mechanisms similar to late war Allied aircraft, have the same flap deployment speeds as the 109? I've only seen a translated 190 pilot manual that had a caution on the flaps, nothing else. On the other hand I have seen U.S. P-51 AAR's that specifically state the pilot deployed his flaps during aerial combat...wouldn't it be safe to assume a 190 pilot had the same capability considering the similarities in the mechanisms?

[thorsim]

not me ...

There was a "another" rather condesending "God" who called himself Zeus in LW last night,he was incessently asking everyone to tell "Hitech" to contact him.

He seemed to be under the impression that many of us had a personal relationship with "Hitech".

I told him that I would relay his message to "Hitech" on Wednesday night when I visited his home for his monthly tupperware party. (crazy off the hook party btw)

He seemed satisfied with my response and signed off with "Godbye".

I just assumed it was you, wanting to contact "Hitech" to apologize.

Apparantly I was wrong.




Or was I?