Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?

[pzvg]

You want a whine? How's about the americans only get twins?
Where's the BF110? the mossie?
the Ki-45?  
Pyro I'm kidding, can Guido let me breathe now?  
But I do agree, VVS had some monster firepower packages, I'd like to see those.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[J_A_B]

In response to Verm's response:

ANG P-51's weren't "foot weary", and were kept up quite well, as with all ANG planes.  Also, while I doubt this information is the SOLE source of data for the 51 in AH, if you look at it you will see that the real ANG P-51, and AH's P-51 match up VERY close.  AH's P-51 DOES perform like its real-life counterpart.

Stripped-down "hotrod" P-51's, without guns, armor, and radios (essentially the same as the still-flying P-51's), performed considerably better than what we have in AH.

That said, the P-51 is ONE plane.  As I said originally, I can't speak for the others.  Some, like the F6F or A6M5, seem to perform as they should.  

Others...well...let's give HTC the benefit of the doubt and assume that they do the best they can.  I really don't believe that they willingly "improve" some planes, while "handicapping" others.  Informatioin on some of the planes in AH is hard to come by, and sometimes you have to make a choice between several conflicting sets of data.

The VVS planes do what they should.  Compare a Yak-9U to a Bf-109G-6, and it'll be a good fight.  

J_A_B

[Spatula]

I have to agree with verm on the armament options. Having the Yak 9 with only one armament option is crap, espc when the 109s and 190s and some USA planes all come with different armament options.

Can comment on the performance of the current yak. All i know is that its a damned good plane (better than a p51 IMO, just under-armed).

[Sorrow[S=A]]

_cough cough_
_barf_

A G6?????

Historically the 9U chewed up G-10's and spat them out under 19,000ft. This plane was a monster at low altitude, same or even lower drag than a P-51 and completely geared and supercharged for low altitude while being a featherweight. She was polished and repainted every 6 service weeks to keep her speed up and was one of the only VVS planes that was rarely operated off dirt tracks as the mud hurt her performance.

All we have of her in AH is a close representation of her speed.  her full manueverability and acceleration make up the difference so she is still dangerous. Like verm has said again and again- if this was done to US or German planes there would be no end of the crying. VVS fans however have been a suffer in silence group who during the Beta fought hard in the La-5FN to make respect. Now that the doors have finally opened it would be nice to have that quiet sufferage rewarded like the loud screaming brats have been in the past. That is the point, that is the desire we have.

[Pongo]

Ram.
If you got the D9 you would have been whining about some facet of it for sure.
Verm.
You know that the most important facet of plane decisions they make seem to be
A) not seen befor
B) Interest(even if its only HT thats intrested, he apperently gets some say.
C) Interest.

You are steping up the level on issues B and C. But you honestly sound like a whiner on this.
Im geting an LA7 and another Yak 9 to go with the ones we have but WHA WHA WHA.
What the hell are you talking about?

Sounds like your dont enjoy the planes at all. Let them release the dam things then we can whine about them.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Ram.
If you got the D9 you would have been whining about some facet of it for sure.
Verm.
You know that the most important facet of plane decisions they make seem to be
A) not seen befor
B) Interest(even if its only HT thats intrested, he apperently gets some say.
C) Interest.

You are steping up the level on issues B and C. But you honestly sound like a whiner on this.
Im geting an LA7 and another Yak 9 to go with the ones we have but WHA WHA WHA.
What the hell are you talking about?

Sounds like your dont enjoy the planes at all. Let them release the dam things then we can whine about them.

LW side wishes D9 for better nonperk plane, which performs at low/medium altitudes better than wuergers (read; speed)

Ta152 again is against those high altitude P51D(weebs), tho, perked.

I don't see why there would be really reason to complain after D9, if its modelled with MW50, so it wouldn't be just a target drone for P-51's and Yaks.. though, still poor maneuver.

Only complains I'd have after dora, would be the deep edge between other 20mm's and the hispano.

(gah.. can I have those realistic instruments, pretty please?)

I don't know about RAM, but thats my opinion.

[Jochen]

Not to sidetrack the discussion (if it is even possible anymore...) but I'm perfectly happy with Luftwaffe planes we will get in 1.06. Remember, it always could be worse!

There will be many versions after 1.06 with many new planes. It is sure that HTC cannot please everyone with their order of modeling planes. But remember that most likely you will get your favoutrite plane in some phase.

Personal attack of the day:

RAM didn't you just quit yet again and said you should quit reading the board?

Here in northern europe, we hold man's word in great value and expect man to live up to his words. Here, when man says something he really means it. Is this so different in south? You guys keep talking just to keep warm, eh? Of course not, Gatt and other italian pilots are top notch folks so it must be personal thing.

For diddly's sake, go away if you have decided to quit! Few more things are more pathetic than man who says he quits but then comes back next day because he cannot live up to his words. And "my hot hispanic blood" is not an valid excuse for acting like clildren in sandbox.

End of personal attack of the day.

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[StSanta]

Verm is right, the VVS badly needs planes.

I'd like to have seen D9 before TA152, because of it being perked...

But MAN, I AIN'T gonna whine now that we're getting both the F8 and the 152!

About the new Yak being perked, I'd say it'd depend on performance, and that it should initially be unperked. Let's see if it is that upsetting.



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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"All your base/are belong to us"
http://www.thefever.com/AYB2.swf
Keep up the momentum!

[RAM]

Re-read my goodbye post in oftopic , I said that i was going to erase my cookie not to post without thinking in it, and that I would still be around the Offtopic and Aircraft/Vehicles forums. I have posted too in the General forum ( acouple of posts) because they were DIRECTLY related to me, and I will, indeed, answer to threads directly talking about me.

I said I was leaving the game and I've done it.I said I was closing the door, and I've done it. I wished good luck to AH and HTC. But I didnt say that I would leave the boards in any moment. I am reading all the forums, and answering offtopic and aircraft/vehicles forums, as I said I would.

So get your things straight before insulting someone, please.

[edit] you can clearly see it in the thread about Lazio,answering to mighty1[/edit]


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-21-2001).]

[Vermillion]

JAB, I understand about ANG P-51s   In fact I spent 6 years in my local ANG unit, the same one that my father spent 27 years in, 13 of which he was a Navigator flying C-119's and later in C-130's. This unit, now known as the 130th TAG, from Charleston WV, was one of the last American units to fly P-51's (if not the last).  And they still have one of their P-51's in pristine show room shape that they keep as a  memorial. In fact, when President Bush spoke about the military last week at our airbase, they wheeled out the P-51 onto the tarmac, and the national news crews had pictures of it, Air Force 2, and some of the units C-130Hs, all in one picture. Really nice. I guess my point wasn't that you were wrong, but simply that there is more data out there for the P-51D, than post war ANG data.

One thing tho. The Yak-9U comparable to the 109G6 ????? Sorry, but you don't know your Yak's at all. As Sorrow pointed out, the Yak-9U was the contemporary to the 109G10, 109K4, 190A8, and 190D9, and could take them all on in a even manner. It was the Yak-9D (similar to the Yak-9T we're getting) that was the contemporary to the 109G6. In fact I have a couple of quotes from Luftwaffe aces and command officers that flew on both fronts that state they thought the Yak-9U was a much more deadly opponent than the P-51D.

 

Now that the doors have finally opened it would be nice to have that quiet sufferage rewarded like the loud screaming brats have been in the past. That is the point, that is the desire we have.

Preach on brother Sorrow.... Preach on.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Vermillion]

Its really funny that not a single person (other than those that agree with me) has addressed the main point of my original post.

• Why do the VVS units not have the subclass armament options or external ordinance available to them, while they are available to every other country in Aces High?
  
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  Vermillion
  **MOL**, Men of Leisure

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Its really funny that not a single person (other than those that agree with me) has addressed the main point of my original post.

• Why do the VVS units not have the subclass armament options or external ordinance available to them, while they are available to every other country in Aces High?
  
  [/B]

well if that is your question I think two reasons that explain it, Verm. I dont say that they are or not correct, I simply say that they can explain why the Yak9U and La5FN dont have more options than the ones they have.

1-I understand that Yaks were classidied as U, D, T, UT, etc, with a standard armament that didnt vary along the career of the plane itself. Germany ,for instance, had planes that could change completely of weapons from one sortie to another. For instance, the LW could field a Me109G6/R6 in one sortie and shortly after it send the same plane to battle as a 109G6/R3. THe cell was the same the weapons didnt.

I really doubt that in the VVS was standard to do that with a Yak9U (to change in few hours from U to UT). But I can be wrong   .

That applies to the internal armament

2-regarding the external ordinance, well, it has been said that VVS relied in dedicated fighters and dedicated bombers. Sorrow said in another post that he doubts that the La5FN ever used the rockets and/or bombs operationally, although it had provision to do it.I dont know about Yak9U.

That may be the reason why you dont have bombs/rockets, but I can be wrong too.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-21-2001).]

[juzz]

Where is the Pe-2 and Il-2 to bomb stuff then? Germany has the Ju 88A-4 and now Fw 190F-8. RAF has Lancaster and Typhoon, US has 3 bombers and all it's fighters are jabo kings...

Of course, Japan and Italy are probably even more screwed than Russia in this regard - I don't think you'll see a P1Y1, S.M.79-II, Ki 102b etc. anytime soon...  

Regarding the Yak weapon loadouts - the Macchi fighters are in the same boat I believe. There were 11 series of MC.202 produced, and only the later ones had wing guns - I suspect retro-fitting them to earlier versions was not an option in the field. The story is the same for the MC.205V also - only the later series had the 20mm fitted.

Then you have freaks like the fictional E wing Spitfire F.IX, and wonderous combinations like 20x100kg bombs and 2 torpedoes on the Ju 88A-4, or 2,500lbs of bombs + 3400rnds ammo + 10 5" rockets on the P-47D-30!

[Wanker]

 

Why do the VVS units not have the subclass armament options or external ordinance available to them, while they are available to every other country in Aces High?

Well, I think I alluded to that in my last post. Maybe, just maybe, Pyro will pull a rabbit out of his hat and give us the 9t and the 9ut. Or, they might add those armament options later, as they've done with the Typhoon.

My point being, let's wait and see what we actually get.

[This message has been edited by banana (edited 02-21-2001).]

[Pongo]

Some of those Russian cannons where good enough that they might cause as much ruckas as the Hisapno has.  Not that that would stop them but it would make them appreciate the non drawing time that the plane might take to introduce. IE 2 weeks to draw the plane. 30 min to type in the ballistics info and 6 months for the game play implecations to settle down.
You asked for reasons.

from pyro
"I harbor no illusions about being able to simultaneously and fully please the various factions, whether it's the Victorians, the superfreaks, or the nationalists. "

he he we Victorians got our own faction..
can I be the leader?

[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 02-21-2001).]