Author Topic: Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?  (Read 4744 times)

Offline RAM

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by juzz:
Where is the Pe-2 and Il-2 to bomb stuff then? Germany has the Ju 88A-4 and now Fw 190F-8. RAF has Lancaster and Typhoon, US has 3 bombers and all it's fighters are jabo kings...

of course, in ground pounders,I agree the VVS planeset is severely lacking.

Offline SKurj

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2001, 09:14:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
 
well if that is your question I think two reasons that explain it, Verm. I dont say that they are or not correct, I simply say that they can explain why the Yak9U and La5FN dont have more options than the ones they have.

1-I understand that Yaks were classidied as U, D, T, UT, etc, with a standard armament that didnt vary along the career of the plane itself. Germany ,for instance, had planes that could change completely of weapons from one sortie to another. For instance, the LW could field a Me109G6/R6 in one sortie and shortly after it send the same plane to battle as a 109G6/R3. THe cell was the same the weapons didnt.

I really doubt that in the VVS was standard to do that with a Yak9U (to change in few hours from U to UT). But I can be wrong    .

That applies to the internal armament

2-regarding the external ordinance, well, it has been said that VVS relied in dedicated fighters and dedicated bombers. Sorrow said in another post that he doubts that the La5FN ever used the rockets and/or bombs operationally, although it had provision to do it.I dont know about Yak9U.

That may be the reason why you dont have bombs/rockets, but I can be wrong too.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-21-2001).]


Hmm the spit 9 has armament options that required a different WING and designation....

SKurj

Offline Staga

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2001, 09:33:00 AM »
I saw a net-site with pics of La-5FN with bomb-racks in its wings. I'll try to find those pics.
Edit: Here's the link
   

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 02-21-2001).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2001, 09:50:00 AM »
 
Quote
Some of those Russian cannons where good enough that they might cause as much ruckas as the Hisapno has. Not that that would stop them but it would make them appreciate the non drawing time that the plane might take to introduce. IE 2 weeks to draw the plane. 30 min to type in the ballistics info and 6 months for the game play implecations to settle down.

Pongo, if that is the case, then fine. I have no arguements with that. In fact Pyro said earlier that he wouldn't release a plane with the NS-37 or NS-45 cannons because they would negate the need for true armor busters in the game.

I understand and respect that. But strange that we now will have the Yak-9T which mounts the 37mm NS-37.

However, given those arguements, what about the OTHER options that are available, and are no more unbalancing than the current set?

The Yak-9UT also had the following available:

  • x3 20mm B-20 Cannons
  • x2 20mm B-20 Cannons (Cowling) + x1 23mm NS-23 Cannon (Hub)


The B20 cannon is ballistically identical to the ShVak we already have, and they used the exact same ammunition. Three ShVaks would be far from devastating.

Three B20 cannons would firepower/lethality wise have approximately the same firepower as the 109G models with a 20mm plus gondolas, or less firepower than the N1K2, F4U-1C, Fw190 (any but two cannon models), Spitfire IX, or the Typhoon.  Is that unbalancing?

The NS-23 23mm cannon would be roughly equivalent to the German Mk108 30mm cannon. It would have better ballistics and rate of fire, but it has a much smaller shell, so would be less lethal.

So again, firepower wise, it would be roughly equal to the 109G series with a 30mm and gondolas, and would still have much less firepower than any of the x4 20mm cannon birds in the current planeset. Is that unbalancing ?

Plus lets not forget that ammo loads in either of these configurations, are very small, and what most people would consider minimal (unless you already fly a Yak or 109   ).

I just don't see how either of these configurations would be unbalancing to
the arena in any way.  At the worst it would give the Yak a snapshot ability only somewhat subpar to what 80% of the planes in the air in the main arena at any one time, currently already have.

It would be such a horrible thing to have to respect the snapshot of the Yak, instead of knowing that he can only kill you if he gets in an extended shot from the dead six position.  

All I ask for is equal treatment for the VVS aircraft that is already given to the rest of the planeset. Is that so horrible?

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Offline RAM

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2001, 09:57:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj:

Hmm the spit 9 has armament options that required a different WING and designation....

SKurj

Well I was talking about german iron as comparison, but you've got a point here  


 
Quote
Originally posted by Juzz:
Then you have freaks like the fictional E wing Spitfire F.IX, and wonderous combinations like 20x100kg bombs and 2 torpedoes on the Ju 88A-4, or 2,500lbs of bombs + 3400rnds ammo + 10 5" rockets on the P-47D-30!

Wow, I thought that the Ju could not load the 20 50kg bombs if torpedo was selected, but indeed it can!!. That's not a freak, that is IMO wrong.

DOnt know about the P47D30, in fact I always thot it only could load 6 rockets and the 10 rockets option came as a surprise to me.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-21-2001).]

Offline Kieren

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2001, 12:09:00 PM »
Verm-

Just to let you know, people read but perhaps don't have the answer. Anything I could come up with would be pure speculation at best, therefore I have left it alone. I'm sure others have done the same.

Offline J_A_B

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2001, 12:10:00 PM »
The reason I compared the YAK-9U to the 109G6 is simple:

When IRL the 9U got a hold of G6's, the YAK's did really well, and they do the same in AH.  They also hold up very well against all the FW's, and are generally a frightening experience for the American fighters.  However, they can't kill the G-10's like they could IRL....WHY?

It isn't because the YAK is porked.   The 109G10 has too much speed IMO.  If the G10 performed like captured examples--428 MPH tops--THEN the YAK would make a much better showing of itself.  

I still think the VVS aircraft are among the better modeled in AH.  It's just some of their opponents aren't.

J_A_B


Offline Pongo

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« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
People gain intrest in an aircraft by reading accounts of fights in them and seeing pictures of the aces aircraft etc.
If you want to build intrest why not post some of those. Or links to them.

Offline Zigrat

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« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2001, 12:30:00 PM »
best solution is to add the yak-9t we are gettiung
then make all armorment options available for all yaks

it will be niceto get a -9t since it saw action in 43, as did the la5fn and would be good for a kursk scenario versus a5s and g6s



[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 02-21-2001).]

Offline Ripsnort

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2001, 01:17:00 PM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
Verm, how to say this...
is a great thing I'm not in the game for now, because if I was I would be quite raged too. Ta152H1 before Fw190D9...and 3 german planes this version, so if the FW190D9 doesnt see the light now, it wont be here for a long time...

You have problems with the data charts ,but you have the planes itself. God knows how happy would I be even with a nonMW50 190D9, but it isnt here either.

I feel your pain     (Image removed from quote.). BUt I dont think you are in such a bad situation than us LW, at least regarding the fighters.

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Originally posted by Verm:
Quote
But can someone tell me why it is modeled with the worst possible flight test performance data available
                   (an issue that has been debated to death on this BBS)? Oh and why it mysteriously lacks its ground attack
                   rockets, in addition to its rightful dearth of external ordinance and fuel? Strange... but not really a pattern....
                   yet.

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Originally posted by Pyro:  
Quote
One thing that's been reinforced to me during this period is that we're a lot more productive when we're just focusing on work. Getting pissed off and demotivated is not the way to go into a final crunch and is only detrimental to progress. I guess I'd personally rather hear the inevitable whining when I have a little breathing space                    than when I'm under the gun trying to get something done. Sometimes it just really gets under my skin.

                    ------------------
                    Doug "Pyro" Balmos
                    HiTech Creations

I couldn't help but put these quotes side by side.



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2001).]

Offline leonid

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2001, 01:25:00 PM »
Regarding the Yak-9UT, I asked Oleg Maddox about this some time ago, and his response was that of all the armament options available for this variant only one was used before war's end: NS-23.  He wasn't absolutely sure about this, but that was his initial view on the subject.  This, from a Russian aerodynamic engineer(turned game developer) living in Moscow with NII-VVS documents easily accessible.  So, if you want to have armament options for the -9U, then there should only be one other than the standard ShVAK.  All the others, NS-37, three B-20, etc., should probably be left on the shelf, since they never made to the frontline.

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ingame: Raz

Offline RAM

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2001, 01:38:00 PM »
Ripsnort, letting aside that with that post you have only added flames in an unneccesary way...

I already have explained that I thougt that Raged=annoyed,sad.

When I saw your answer I took the translation book and saw that raged=infuriated,angry.

I will never be infuriated with a new LW plane on the set, be sure of that.

Offline Staga

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2001, 01:43:00 PM »
Rip Why did you drag that toejam to this topic too? One wasted topic wasn't enough for you ?
edit: Read your first reply inhttp://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/001548.html" TARGET=_blank>
 this topic.

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 02-21-2001).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2001, 01:50:00 PM »
RAM, stop trying to derail my thread! Go start your own.  

Leonid, I would have no problem with that, if we found that too be the case. One 23mm cannon and two 20mm cannons would do the job just fine.  

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Offline Ripsnort

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Anti - VVS (Russian/Soviet) Bias ?
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »
Staga, Ram's a big boy, you stay outta my affairs, I'll stay outta yours.

If you consider me putting up a mirror to someones face and showing their own reflection, and you consider that a flame, then you're not as educated as I thought.

Sorry Verm, back to the regularly scheduled program.



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2001).]