Author Topic: PBY  (Read 1952 times)

Offline Jayhawk

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Re: PBY
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 06:00:50 PM »
Man, Presider made one post nearly 10 years ago.  You guys must have really scared him off.
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Offline uptown

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Re: PBY
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 06:20:52 PM »
I brought this up a few months ago. Althought I'd love to see the Catalina in the game, there is really no useful purpose for it in the game right now. Maybe if and when we get subs they would have better chance to be introduced.
I was wanting them for troop and supply duties but that would not be historically correct. I kind of chose to overlook that part in my delightful dream  :lol My thought was wanting an alternative to transporting troops and supplies to and from the CV groups besides the LVT. After fishing the waters on the boards here, I was informed that they were never carrier based. There lies the main problem IMO.
As much as I'd love to see the plane in the game, I do think it is more important to say within the confines of actual history. Besides, there are a lot of other planes more deserving to be introduced to the game before the PBY anyway. :salute
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Offline DEECONX

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Re: PBY
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 06:54:04 PM »
Karnak, I know what you mean by the "Not american" jazz, but there were like 4K Catalina's to the 160+"Emily's". Just saying...



Offline Karnak

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Re: PBY
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 10:58:07 PM »
Karnak, I know what you mean by the "Not american" jazz, but there were like 4K Catalina's to the 160+"Emily's". Just saying...



My posts, 9 years old, were about an ongoing issue and that is that the planesets are extremely lopsided in favor of the US as well as the fact that the H8K would be vastly more usable in the MA.  I recognize, now far more than then, that it is very hard to get data for Japanese and Russian aircraft, particularly as compared to US aircraft.  That said, the current sets are not indicative of the variety of aircraft employed by the Russians and, even more so, the Japanese.  The Japanese employed almost as great a variety of aircraft as the US did.

It is very easy to to just say that the US built more, and we did without question, but it does not make for as interesting an environment or scenarios when the available units only cover the Allied side of things.
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: PBY
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 07:54:36 AM »
Because the personalities in the discussion are the same as they were 9 years ago?  :huh

I think past threads apply of there is something definitive from HTC.  Otherwise they are nice banter between personalities.
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Offline DEECONX

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Re: PBY
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 11:00:34 AM »

It is very easy to to just say that the US built more


11000+ Wellingtons
10000+ Pe-2s
7000+ He111s
5000+ Beaufighters
5000+ Ki-43s


Yes, it is easier to say that "such and such" built more!  ;)

Offline Dr_Death8

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Re: PBY
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2010, 11:38:26 AM »
PBY would be a nice addition, at least that way when I get shot down and bail I have a chance of rescue by SAR.  :x  Actually they could set them up like the Black Cats so they could be used against tin cans and PTs or LVTs...

Offline Karnak

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Re: PBY
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2010, 11:43:43 AM »

Yes, it is easier to say that "such and such" built more!  ;)
The 18,000 B-24s alone is probably more industrial effort than all that list combined.

I am by no means saying that other nations didn't produce very significant aircraft totals, just that the oft used "There were more of x American aircraft than y Japanese aircraft, so obviously the American one should be added first!" argument is correct in regards to production totals, but it ignores the bigger picture in order to use simple production numbers as a justification to have the planeset extremely lopsided in favor of American units.

I remember a guy posting, probably back around the time this thread was posted, that the rule should be that no aircraft with less than 3,000 built should be added.  I tore into him based on his arguing for something that would produce extremely biased results.  I think he did it in innocence, not realizing that such a rule would only allow two or three Japanese aircraft (A6M5, Ki-43-II, Ki-84-Ia) in the game at all.  People put too much stock in production totals.  Yes, it is relevant at a point, but by the time you're looking at a couple hundred airframes you have an aircraft that very well could have played a significant role in WWII.  The H8K in this thread had less than 200 built of all types, but it served constantly through the whole war as compared to the P-63 which was built in the thousands and might have fought in limited numbers for a few weeks.  Which is more significant?  For those who simply judge based on production numbers, the P-63 would be seen as vastly more significant, but from any historical perspective the H8K was the much more significant aircraft.


Basically, production totals are just one factor that needs to be considered.  Significance during WWII and difficulty in adding it due to graphics work (B-29 and H8K both get hit hard by this one) or difficulty in getting performance data (Japanese and Russian units have a problem with this one) all play a role as well.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 11:46:54 AM by Karnak »
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Offline WING47

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Re: PBY
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2010, 03:42:01 PM »
If we want a Seaplane, lets get the H8K2 "Emily". It can do all of the things the PBY can, plus its a bomber, plus its well defended, plus the H8K3 was a troop transport, plus its even tougher than the PBY and finally, ITS NOT AMERICAN!!!!!

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actually the PBY was used for attacking subs, and was very successful at killing merchant ships. It could also carried out attacks on Japanese bases. It could carry bombs and depth charges. Plus it was amphibious and had a very VERY long range. It wouldn't suprise me to see some skimming the waves NOE looking for the enemy CV, before it got in range to shell a base or hunting the proposed merchant convoys.

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: PBY
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2010, 04:18:24 PM »
It was slooooooooow.

 :bolt:slowly


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Offline Karnak

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Re: PBY
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2010, 05:55:44 PM »
WING47,

Check the date of the post you quoted.
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Offline WING47

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Re: PBY
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2010, 04:46:27 PM »
WING47,

Check the date of the post you quoted.
If you want the data, go to PBY.com

Offline Jayhawk

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Re: PBY
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2010, 04:52:54 PM »
Read slower, Karnak is trying to point out that you are arguing a post he made nearly a decade ago.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: PBY
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2010, 09:32:58 AM »
PBY's only advantage was range, (could stay aloft for 16 hours) which is negated in this game. (Re-upping from water, I suspect, is a coading nightmare)
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Offline Imowface

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Re: PBY
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2010, 03:50:42 PM »
I would rather see the short Sutherland, although I would only be available from ports, as far as I know It only had gear to beach it with, but not actually land.
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