Nightfighters and RADAR systems

[simshell]

Night in the main arena was debated and whined about almost as much as HO's when we did have it

I dont see it coming back

[Ack-Ack]

F4U-2, P-38M, P-61?

Don't forget Night Torpedo Squadron 90 (VTN-90) that flew TBM-3Ds with the APS-4 radar.  They were even scrambled as night fighters on a few occasions, though I don't recall any of the night torpedo/bomber units scoring kills during these sorties.


ack-ack

[Cthulhu]

I don't pretend to know everything about WWII, as I most certainly don't!   Learnin' something new every day.  I actually recently got into WWII aircraft, something like 3 or 4 years ago, and have been addicted ever since.  Never surprises me that I'm misinformed or completely ignorant about something!

No insult intended.   It's just that the P-61 is such a unique and interesting aircraft. It's usually the first airplane that comes to mind when Allied night fighters are discussed.

[malpeake]

I am reading Spitfires over Malta ATM, and they tried Spit 5's painted black as night fighters, they did go up with the Beufighter night fighters by the sound of it, not very successful if i understand, but they did get some bandits.

Malap.

[SgtPappy]

Cthulhu,

The P-61 was tested to have better agility? That's crazy! 
But in all seriousness, it's quite difficult to believe. Better speed, yes, better climb, maybe.. but better agility? Hm not so sure. If you have a test I'd like to see it please.

malpeake,

Spitfire V's were indeed used as nightfighters in squadrons like No.111 and No. 65 sqn.s in 1941. They had no AI radar systems onboard though. It was all about following ground lights and shooting down the enemy. In fact Spitfire I's were used in a similar role during the BoB, Sailor Malan shot down a bomber sometime in June 1940.

I've heard, however, of radar systems being experimentally fitted onto Spitfire's but never used. If anyone can clarify, that'd be great.

[Greebo]

The P-61 was an unusual aircraft. It had almost full span flaps with very small ailerons, roll spoilers adding additional rollrate. The large wing area coupled with huge flaps gave it an impressive turn rate similar to many single seat fighters.

IIRC it performed impressively at low and med alts but the Mossie was better high up. The turbocharged version of the P-61 arrived too late to see service.

[SectorNine50]

That pink Spit IX you see in-game is actually a night-fighter color, if you believe it.  For some reason that color is very hard to see at night, just like how red cars appear black and are difficult to see at night.  There are pictures of the pink rovers too, though as I understand it, the squadron didn't like it very much.

[malpeake]

The pink Spits and Rovers are desert camo, It is still used, in Desert storm the RAF painted the Tornado's "Desert Pink" and the Pink rovers in WWII were used by the SAS. It was found to blend perfectly with the Desert landscape.

[Greebo]

IIRC the pink Spits were actually for low level daytime reconaissance. The Spits would use cloud cover to approach their target, pop out take a few snaps and pop back in again. In tests the pink colour was found to blend against clouds the best.

The RAF desert camo was two-tone brown on top and a medium blue underneath. Spit nightfighters were black all over.

I remember reading that F-117As were originally going to be painted pink, as it was found to be the best night time camo colour. However there was a pilot rebellion and they ended up black. 

[malpeake]

I seem to remember the prototype F117 was a two tone camo, dark blue and im not sure if it was white, light grey or light blue, it was said to be harder to see than flat black, but vanity got in the way and it was painted black to look more menacing lol.

[AWwrgwy]

I seem to remember the prototype F117 was a two tone camo, dark blue and im not sure if it was white, light grey or light blue, it was said to be harder to see than flat black, but vanity got in the way and it was painted black to look more menacing lol.

A Nighthawk in Raptor’s clothing

12/08/2003 – HOLLOMAN AIR FORCE BASE, N.M. (ACCNS) – It took 10 gallons of dark gray paint, five-and-a-half gallons of light gray paint and three gallons of silicon paint to give one F-117A Nighthawk here an F/A-22 Raptor-style makeover.

Lt. Col. Kevin Sullivan, Detachment 1, 53rd Test and Evaluation Group commander, asked the 49th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron corrosion flight to paint their F-117, nicknamed “the Dragon,” gray to evaluate if it will have a substantial role in daytime combat operations.

“The chief of staff wants to have a 24-hour stealth presence over future battlefields,” said Lt. Col. Buck Rogers, the Det. 1, 53rd TEG operations officer. “We know our current black paint scheme wouldn’t be a good color for daytime operations.”

Preparation for painting began Nov. 17, said Staff Sgt. Armond Cornin, 49th AMXS corrosion flight NCOIC. AMXS members worked day and night to complete the job.

With the project complete, the jet will participate in upcoming tests as part of a program called Global Strike Task Force, Colonel Rogers said. The jet will fly with the F/A-22 in several tests both locally and deployed.

The Dragon is a test-coded aircraft owned by Det. 1, 53rd TEG.

“We use the Dragon for everything from new tactics development to the evaluation of new software or hardware,” said Maj. Tre Urso, a Det. 1, 53rd TEG pilot. “Det. 1 has been involved in all the F-117 modifications and upgrades over the years. Now, we want to evaluate the feasibility of using the F-117 during daylight operations.”

According to Colonel Rogers, Air Force leadership will approve additional jets for the gray scheme only if the test results show the change is warranted.

Whether or not the rest of the jets are painted, this project is worth the time and effort spent on completing it, Major Urso said.

“It provides a great opportunity for us to learn about our daytime capabilities and limitations. It also helps us evaluate how the new paints will hold up over time and lets us measure the impact the color modification has on the maintenance troops who maintain the jet. Bottom line, we need to make sure we provide our leaders an accurate assessment of the costs and benefits involved with daytime ops and the gray paint scheme.”

Staff Sgts. Armond Cornin and Casell Davis, and Airman 1st Class Louis Delgado, members of the 49th Maintenance Squadron, apply a layer of primer to the underbelly of an F-117 before it’s painted gray. The aircraft will participate in Global Strike Task Force tests aimed at determining the feasibility of using the F-117 during daytime operations.

wrongway

[toonces3]

If you are really interested in hearing an outstanding presentation about radar development in WW2, you should check out this video on youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFSPHfZQpIQ

The presentation is entitled, "The Secret History of Silicon Valley".

I saw this presentation live at the Naval Postgraduate School last year (the youtube video is from somewhere else) and the presentation is very, very interesting.  I didn't know anything about the electronic war that developed in WW2 and this really opened my eyes.  I think about 3/4 through he says something to the effect that more metal was used to make chaff than anything else in the entire war. 

It's long, and it starts sort of slow, but once it gets rolling it becomes very fascinating. 

See ya,
Toonces