LIFE Magazine Color Pictures of Nazi Germany

[moot]

Yep, now that I think about it IIRC there's a couple of people who just balk at the sight of it, no matter the context.  So HTC prolly just doesn't want to deal with it.

[Delirium]

Those are the same 'couple of people' that claim the Finns are breaking the rules for having the swastika on their airplanes.

[evenhaim]

some countries have internet filters

[Lusche]

I don't understand how this is a risk.  The pictures are documentary as allowed by that German law.
Lusche?

§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations

 (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; […] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. […] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purpose (...)

Actually, things like swastikas are quite present in German media to this day, for there is still a lot of discussion, education, research going on.
The pictures that were deleted in this thread would not have been illegal if posted in a similar way in Germany.
However, I can understand HTC's firm stance on this matter - that way the rule is easy to follow without much discussion and arguing about any lines that have possibly been crossed. I probably would not had them edited out, but after all - it's their business, not mine

[john9001]

die Hakenkreuze ist verboten.

[Delirium]

Actually, things like swastikas are quite present in German media to this day, for there is still a lot of discussion, education, research going on.

I take it you still live in Germany? Mind if I ask you (or anyone else that live in Germany) a few questions?

Has the image of the Nazi party (in the eyes of the general populace) changed at all in the past 10-15 years? Have an increasing number of youth become attracted to the mystique, or is the news exaggerating the issue?

I have the sense that the average German citizen blames the Nazi hierarchy for the events that took place, are any of them blameless in the populaces eyes (ie Speer or Donitz)?

Are some individual military units  (either German or some other nation) vilified by the populace in Germany?

I'm certain I have a lot more questions, it is a rare treat to get exposed to a culture without having to move the locale. Thanks! 

[WWhiskey]

nice pictures great find, i want more, more dangit, more

[Lusche]

I take it you still live in Germany? Mind if I ask you (or anyone else that live in Germany) a few questions?

Has the image of the Nazi party (in the eyes of the general populace) changed at all in the past 10-15 years? Have an increasing number of youth become attracted to the mystique, or is the news exaggerating the issue?

I have the sense that the average German citizen blames the Nazi hierarchy for the events that took place, are any of them blameless in the populaces eyes (ie Speer or Donitz)?

Are some individual military units  (either German or some other nation) vilified by the populace in Germany?

I'm certain I have a lot more questions, it is a rare treat to get exposed to a culture without having to move the locale. Thanks! 

That are some tough questions, as there is no simple answer to each of them. Actually, unlike most stuff I write on this BBS I have to conceive my answer in German first and then try to translate it 
Also I think this could be considered as crossing the "no politics" line Skuzzy has set... maybe I better respond by PM?

[moot]

I'd like to argue against you keeping that PM private if possible. I'd like to hear it myself and others probably do too, and it's probably going to be written at the opposite of why politics are banned in the OC.  They're banned because people can't reasonably discuss them.  Not only will your reply by reasonable but it'll be a pretty valuable exposure to a different insight.  I think that if anything, it'll put a cold shower on a lot of uninformed and inflaming discussion on the subject.  It will enrich OC discussion (even if just by one small argument).

[Lusche]

As I already stated, these questions are quite difficult to answer directly, as I'm more or less a plain citizen with just a better historical  education than most Germans
I have no studies or even just polls at hand so bear with me - it's just a personal view


For the average German, the 3rd Reich is incredibly far away. Yes, almost all of us had learned about it in school (though in varying quality), and as a German you are still very much exposed to a huge public  remembrance culture - each anniversary like the Machtergreifung or the liberation of Auschwitz spawns a lot of public speeches, commemorative ceremonies especially on higher levels (like Bundestag), articles in newspapers and magazines and many features on television.
But I really doubt John Doe is really caring very much about it anymore and I don't think that had been much different 10-15 years ago. 20-30 years ago that could have been a different matter, but it's hard to tell for someone not being 40 yet

It is however very present in all higher levels/circles, media, politics, humanities etc. It is very much influenzing modern politics and semantics.  The things that have (or may have) changend in the modern perception of the 3rd Reich and nazism are somewhat limited to academic circles, high quality medias and people actually interested in that topic.
One of those things that have defenitely changed is the view on the Wehrmacht itself. 30 years ago there may have been a commomon consensus that the Wehrmacht had been (forgive me this simplification) "innocent" - more a victim of Hitler and his evil minions himself than a active player in expansion, extermination, war crimes. This has definitely changed, being replaced with a much more differentiated view.
But again, this is more an academic/media phenomenom. I'd say:  For the average German, such things don't really play a role anymore.

And I doubt there is an increasing number of youth being attracted for the myth. Actually, over the years I have come to the conclusion that the myth is much more present in countries like the United States or Great Britain with a totally different culture and differrent (=much less) taboos (and laws!) on that matter.

"I have the sense that the average German citizen blames the Nazi hierarchy for the events that took place, are any of them blameless in the populaces eyes (ie Speer or Donitz)?"
I'd say most Germans would not be able to tell you who Dönitz was
Despite the rememberance culture I mentioned, these are academic debates & topics these days.

"Are some individual military units  (either German or some other nation) vilified by the populace in Germany?"
The general public view has changed on the Wehrmacht, but discussions about individual units are, again, pretty much academic ones

[USRanger]

The pictures of the infantrymen are what personally grabs me the most.  I have hundred of pics of me & my boys doing the same things and they match so well it's creepy.  Same faces, only the uniform is different.  I'm a vet of 2 wars and some smaller conflicts I can't get into.  Those fights were always against an enemy that looked totally different that us (skin tone, etc.)  It's hard for me to imagine what it was like to fight and kill people that look just like you & I.  Most people on these boards can try to understand that, but unless you've pulled the trigger, I don't know if you'll get what I mean.  I'm having a hard time trying to choose the right words to explain.  I just think it had to be harder to fight and kill people that looked the same as us, compared to some hajji with a bomb.  I was born in the 70s.  WWII was never quite "real" to me.  Sure, I love to research it & stuff, but it still seems like another world.  These pics remind me that it was this world, and not that long ago.

<S> to the people on all sides who fought in this great conflict.  I could not imagine losing in a day or two as many people as we've lost in Iraq or A'stan total.  The scale of the fighting is almost incomprehensible to me.  What an awful thing to go through.  I just couldn't imagine.

[Motherland]

For some reason, WWII era color photographs, at least for me, give more of a portal into that 'world' than grayscale or modern photographs do. I don't know why... but when I look at color photos from that era it almost instantly feels like I'm there... it takes some effort to feel the same with other pictures.

[Delirium]

And I doubt there is an increasing number of youth being attracted for the myth. Actually, over the years I have come to the conclusion that the myth is much more present in countries like the United States or Great Britain with a totally different culture and differrent (=much less) taboos (and laws!) on that matter.

I agree with you on that, I recently had a patient that was incredibly nasty to anyone but myself. I couldn't understand it, my bedsnide (bedside) manner isn't the best sometimes and most feel less threatened by a woman.

One day, the reasoning became very apparent. The patients son came in in a SS uniform, complete with the death's head insignia and the son was nice enough to leave a framed photo on the bed side table of him in the uniform. Fortunately, I believe there was about 100 IQ points divided between the father and son, but I guess having a lack of intelligence is just what the 'recruiting office' was looking for.

I have another question for you;

I asked you before if anyone was made a villian by the people of Germany of today, do you have anyone the population looks upon as a hero?

edit: Thank you very much for answering the questions, I'm sure it is very difficult for you, but I appreciate it!

[Guppy35]

With the understanding WW2 history has been my hobby for over 40 years, those photos are still frightening.

[Serenity]

As I already stated, these questions are quite difficult to answer directly, as I'm more or less a plain citizen with just a better historical  education than most Germans
I have no studies or even just polls at hand so bear with me - it's just a personal view


For the average German, the 3rd Reich is incredibly far away. Yes, almost all of us had learned about it in school (though in varying quality), and as a German you are still very much exposed to a huge public  remembrance culture - each anniversary like the Machtergreifung or the liberation of Auschwitz spawns a lot of public speeches, commemorative ceremonies especially on higher levels (like Bundestag), articles in newspapers and magazines and many features on television.
But I really doubt John Doe is really caring very much about it anymore and I don't think that had been much different 10-15 years ago. 20-30 years ago that could have been a different matter, but it's hard to tell for someone not being 40 yet

It is however very present in all higher levels/circles, media, politics, humanities etc. It is very much influenzing modern politics and semantics.  The things that have (or may have) changend in the modern perception of the 3rd Reich and nazism are somewhat limited to academic circles, high quality medias and people actually interested in that topic.
One of those things that have defenitely changed is the view on the Wehrmacht itself. 30 years ago there may have been a commomon consensus that the Wehrmacht had been (forgive me this simplification) "innocent" - more a victim of Hitler and his evil minions himself than a active player in expansion, extermination, war crimes. This has definitely changed, being replaced with a much more differentiated view.
But again, this is more an academic/media phenomenom. I'd say:  For the average German, such things don't really play a role anymore.

And I doubt there is an increasing number of youth being attracted for the myth. Actually, over the years I have come to the conclusion that the myth is much more present in countries like the United States or Great Britain with a totally different culture and differrent (=much less) taboos (and laws!) on that matter.

"I have the sense that the average German citizen blames the Nazi hierarchy for the events that took place, are any of them blameless in the populaces eyes (ie Speer or Donitz)?"
I'd say most Germans would not be able to tell you who Dönitz was
Despite the rememberance culture I mentioned, these are academic debates & topics these days.

"Are some individual military units  (either German or some other nation) vilified by the populace in Germany?"
The general public view has changed on the Wehrmacht, but discussions about individual units are, again, pretty much academic ones

Thanks for not taking this Private. As moot said, it is a VERY interesting insight into another culture! Thank you for sharing this with us!