Author Topic: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?  (Read 3503 times)

Offline Steve

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2009, 08:02:32 PM »
Obviously you must have film of this somewhere since the only way to see that it's me is by watching the film....
So, produce it....

You have HO'd me on several instances.  I'd have to review hundreds of films and not only do I not feel like it, I don't have to.  You HO.
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Offline Urchin

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2009, 08:05:13 PM »
You have HO'd me on several instances.  I'd have to review hundreds of films and not only do I not feel like it, I don't have to.  You HO.

Ah ah ah.  Sir Anodizer does NOT HO.  In fact... it appears that he only commits to the joust when it appears that his knightly opponent appears to commit to some other form of combat.  If his opponent commits to the joust, Sir Ano will apparently do his best to avoid it. 

You know... that makes almost no sense at all to me. 

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2009, 08:11:46 PM »
I don't remember exactly but I could have shot you on a similar angle.  I'm assuming I was coming down at you in some regard and doubt it was a straight line trajectory, but I do HO sometimes based on the situation.  Never said I don't HO.  Typically my HO's are when a plane completes his turn around on me as I am firing at him.  If i'm in a 152 with those cannons, it's almost certain I will kill the guy before he can even get guns on me.  I never "joust" though.

As far as with Shane, I was pursuing him, he didn't finish his turn, and pulled up in front of my guns.  It was an entirely different situation and Shane never said it was a HO.  That was quite a few months ago, I've logged over 1000 duels since then and have developed a much different outlook on the dynamic of the fight.




And that's all good.  My point remains.  You got jumped for doing something that wasn't wrong, but based on the 'code' was not a good thing according to those at the time preaching the 'code'.

Much ado about nothing.  Ano didn't do anything beyond which most if not all of us have done given that kind of shot.  He wasn't out of line in taking it and it wasn't a HO shot.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2009, 08:17:35 PM »
And that's all good.  My point remains.  You got jumped for doing something that wasn't wrong, but based on the 'code' was not a good thing according to those at the time preaching the 'code'.

Much ado about nothing.  Ano didn't do anything beyond which most if not all of us have done given that kind of shot.  He wasn't out of line in taking it and it wasn't a HO shot.


Except one big point you are missing.  He sacrificed angles for a weak shot.  He never intended to actually fight Karaya.  He was perfectly content with staying on top of the merge out of position. 

Again no disrespect Anodizer, just analyzing the 15 second blip on film.  Have never seen you fly nor would never judge someone's ability based on 15 seconds.

Offline Dadano

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2009, 08:31:19 PM »
Crap flying on everyone's part. I would call that a hot merge, but there wasn't a merge. 38 too sissy to fight. Spit 9 too sissy to fight. 
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2009, 08:56:38 PM »
Crap flying on everyone's part. I would call that a hot merge, but there wasn't a merge. 38 too sissy to fight. Spit 9 too sissy to fight. 

I've been playing for only 2 years....  Half the time, I have no clue what I'm doing wrong until someone points it out....  So, I claim ignorance in this case..
I can guarantee that if he would've turned around, I would have surely gave him a fight, or at least tried....  But it seems a number of you guys are all about ridiculing the good ol' college try as well.. 
If you want to call staying on top of the fight a sissy move, then I guess you can call all the trainers sissies too...  Including Spatula and Murder....
I learned it from them... 

You know what gents, I'm gonna detune from 200, squelch a few people, and fly how I want instead of trying to be
a stand up player who will more often than not give someone a decent fight..  If there was a middle phalange smiley on here, I'd fill the screen with 'em..
From now on, I will take the shot..  Perhaps if I take ALL the shots I come across and not worry about pissing someone off or causing friction with people I thought were decent folks, I'll actually have some fun instead of trying to play nice...  I'm not gonna waste time recording every fight anymore....  I'm not wastomg time trying to get better....  I'm not going to waste any time whatsoever in learning anything anymore....  If I suck, I suck...
So what?  But I can tell you that if anyone gets in front of my guns, I will shoot....  At this point, I could care less what is considered a ho or pick or what ever else I've avoided doing
to try and remain legit..  Obviously trying to be an upstanding player in this game means absolutely nothing because some like myself who's only been in the game for 2 years will be ridiculed anyway..  So, if you're going to ridicule, I'll give you something to ridicule about...  I hope I piss many of you off in the coming days....  Joy will fill my heart when the PM's start rolling in....




« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 09:19:36 PM by Anodizer »
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Offline FALCONWING

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2009, 09:01:10 PM »
as too the film...

1.  Not a HO
2.  Anodizer is basically trying to setup an E mismatch where his plan would have been for the spit to try to pull up under him and get roped...Karaya doesn't fall for it..but he does give Anodizer an angle shot at merge...
3.  Anodizer continues to stay high until he runs out of fuel???? (he is surrounded by enemy cons though)
4.  16k alt fight....yuck
5. personally with a 38 who has e/alt adv on me i'll show him my tail and hope to get chased down and use his compression against him to achieve a better e state...but i have a cute hunted tail :devil


As too Karaya...I think he is a standup guy by my personal experiences with him...he types a bit too much on ch 200 sometimes but I'ld look him up next time he is on and try to chat with him Anodizer...you guys are probably more similar than different :salute

p.s. posting films in the bbs rarely result in obtaining satisfaction unless you are a member of the "BBS horde"...keep trying to be a standup guy Anodizer...it is the right thing to do :rock
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 09:05:07 PM by FALCONWING »
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Offline Steve

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15:36 PM »


From now on, I will take the shot.. 


Well, that shot is risky because you surrender some angles to take it. Had Karaya simple Yoyo'd hard around, he would have had a significant angles edge. Plenty of people don't know what a HO is.  Look at the goofs in here who posted it wasn't a HO.  Take that shot "from now on" if you feel you must but make sure you can land it, because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

 :salute
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Offline Avaro

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2009, 09:17:51 PM »
Looks like a deflection shot to me.. Besides who merges like that In ma anyways your asking to get ho'd. :salute
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2009, 09:24:32 PM »
Well, that shot is risky because you surrender some angles to take it. Had Karaya simple Yoyo'd hard around, he would have had a significant angles edge. Plenty of people don't know what a HO is.  Look at the goofs in here who posted it wasn't a HO.  Take that shot "from now on" if you feel you must but make sure you can land it, because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.

 :salute

Who you calling a goof!  :)

Picker! :D
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Offline Steve

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2009, 09:33:34 PM »
Who you calling a goof!  :)

Picker! :D

Oh noes!

 :lol
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Offline 475FG Savlan

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2009, 09:33:35 PM »
I think a lot of people label what I view as Aces' High "special" reenactment of the medieval joust as a "HO". 

Not going to bother watching the film, from the way it was described Anodizer had his lance couched as he was charging down the list, and Karaya decided he didn't want to joust.   

Basically, Sir Anodizer, Karaya is saying that by couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze, you were committing to the "HO". 

That is how I see it, anyway

You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.

Being online aquaintances of both gents and finding them both to be good guys, I feel I can be a impartial judge.  Im motivated by the urge to show the community that the definition of a HO is up to the perception of the individual at that split second, which may often turn out to be a misconception.

Im reminded of a training film I watched long ago in the Police Academy. It showed a teen of questionable merit, dressed in 'street' clothes, running out of a store with a womans pocketbook in hand.  The instructor stopped the film and asked us what we would do. The answers varied from tackle the kid to shoot the kid in the leg to foil a robbery to get on the radio and initiate a pursuit.  The instructor then turned the film back on to reveal the teen catching up to a lady as she got on a bus to hand her the purse she had left on the counter of the store.

The lesson? -things aint always what they seem, and dont let your prejudices cloud your judgement.


With that said, what each guy saw depends not only on his views & perception, but video hardware.

I actually watched the film. Here's what I come away with-these are full size screenshots cropped down to gunsight view, not reduced.


At 1k the merge begins.  The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot



At around 600 the 38 is indeed doing just that, as the spit driver pushes low on the merge.  The spit should be looking at the 38 thru the top of the canopy, and the 38 driver is looking at a spit in full profile view. HO? I dont think so myself.


At 400 the 38 takes a shot while kicking rudder and ths spit appears to be rolling and pulling up to present a small silouette to his attacker while passing under the 38s nose.


So, I see a attempt to land a front quarter deflection shot while kicking rudder in a descent defeated by Karaya's high speed low merge.

All this just a few seconds.

By my definition HO literally stands for Head On.  For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose.  This is the so called and aptly described joust.  If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there?  The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out.  Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'.  Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.

I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"

Thanks for the excuse to play with Photoshop....anyone have a copy of the Zabruder film for me to analyze? :)
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Offline Avaro

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2009, 09:40:43 PM »
You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.

Being online aquaintances of both gents and finding them both to be good guys, I feel I can be a impartial judge.  Im motivated by the urge to show the community that the definition of a HO is up to the perception of the individual at that split second, which may often turn out to be a misconception.

Im reminded of a training film I watched long ago in the Police Academy. It showed a teen of questionable merit, dressed in 'street' clothes, running out of a store with a womans pocketbook in hand.  The instructor stopped the film and asked us what we would do. The answers varied from tackle the kid to shoot the kid in the leg to foil a robbery to get on the radio and initiate a pursuit.  The instructor then turned the film back on to reveal the teen catching up to a lady as she got on a bus to hand her the purse she had left on the counter of the store.

The lesson? -things aint always what they seem, and dont let your prejudices cloud your judgement.


With that said, what each guy saw depends not only on his views & perception, but video hardware.

I actually watched the film. Here's what I come away with-these are full size screenshots cropped down to gunsight view, not reduced.

(Image removed from quote.)
At 1k the merge begins.  The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
At around 600 the 38 is indeed doing just that, as the spit driver pushes low on the merge.  The spit should be looking at the 38 thru the top of the canopy, and the 38 driver is looking at a spit in full profile view. HO? I dont think so myself.

(Image removed from quote.)
At 400 the 38 takes a shot while kicking rudder and ths spit appears to be rolling and pulling up to present a small silouette to his attacker while passing under the 38s nose.

(Image removed from quote.)
So, I see a attempt to land a front quarter deflection shot while kicking rudder in a descent defeated by Karaya's high speed low merge.

All this just a few seconds.

By my definition HO literally stands for Head On.  For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose.  This is the so called and aptly described joust.  If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there?  The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out.  Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'.  Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.

I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"

Thanks for the excuse to play with Photoshop....anyone have a copy of the Zabruder film for me to analyze? :)
Someone agreed with me damn the world must be ending.. Nice post btw.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2009, 11:32:43 PM »
By my definition HO literally stands for Head On.  For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose.

So, by your definition, if both pilots have a shot, but one avoids and the other tries to take it, it's not a head-on shot...reductio ad absurdum: your definition is too narrow.

Btw, this thread is going past 12 pages. :aok
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2009, 03:02:15 AM »
Not a merge in my opinion. nobody did anything, Anodizer had reason to stay on top seeing there was like 5 guys below him but was fighting very timid, so was Karaya who I would say was flying even more timid seeing the number advantage
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