Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?

[Larry]

I don't see one HO in that film. Most of you saying its a HO always cry that a HO is when both planes have a shot on each other. Sure karaya could have pointed his nose at him and jousted but he didn't. He turned his nose away and anodizer took a clean shot.

whereas you fired on the initial merge: therefore it's a head-on.

That's the funniest thing I heard from you. Just because its the first merge means any shot is a HO?

[Steve]

Since when? 
Wow, you don't even know me, man...  Don't think I've ever even fought you...

I'v merged with you a few times.  HO every time.

[Anodizer]

I'v merged with you a few times.  HO every time.

Obviously you must have film of this somewhere since the only way to see that it's me is by watching the film....
So, produce it....

[grizz441]

I don't see one HO in that film. Most of you saying its a HO always cry that a HO is when both planes have a shot on each other. Sure karaya could have pointed his nose at him and jousted but he didn't. He turned his nose away and anodizer took a clean shot.

Surely you understand this concept Larry...

"HO" is a grey area definiton.  Early in the fight the definition of a HO is a lot wider of range than later in the fight as planes are slower and have been working to create angles.  
For example with brackets as range...
Early in fight "Considered HO" range is [                                       ]
Middle of fight "Considered HO" range is [                         ]
As the fight drags on "Considered HO" range is [           ]

Rule of thumb:  If you are looking for a shot on the first merge (expecially with altitude underneath you), you are going to be HOing more often than not.

Thought a HO is when both planes are facing each other on the initial merge. ( if there's any )

This is the most simplistic of misconceptions.

Is it widely considered that this type of shot is a ho????  Other veterans have done this shot on me and when I drew to question, I was explained it was a front quarter shot....

On the first merge where both planes are on straight line trajectories where one is slightly off centered, yes this is typically considered a HO even if you see his front quarter.  However if, say on the 2nd turn, you finish your turn quicker than him and he is still completing his turn and you shoot his front quarter as he finishes his turn around at you, this is a completely valid shot.  (even though plenty of people will whine about this also)

[Forker]

How many times am I going to have to tell you guys...................THIS IS A HO

[TonyJoey]

Saw no HO there. 

/sarcasm As for Karaya's ego, no such thing! /sarcasm

[BigR]

I think Karaya didn't wait long enough to break. It always amazes me when people turn right in front of me like that. They are begging to get shot. You can avoid the HO without breaking so early. The best way to avoid the HO is with subtle movements. You dont have to hard break like that. My theory being that the people who HO cant hit jack to begin with, and the people who CAN aim usually don't stoop to the HO on a 1v1 merge. I don't really know what was in Anodizor's head during that merge. Who knows if he was planning the HO the whole time, but when you turn in front of someone and give them a shot, you gotta expect they are gonna take it.

[stodd]

I'm not firing until he's within' 500ft....  Not sure if you were referring to me firing at such stupid ranges or what..

I think Tec was just making a general statement not directed at you, I could be wrong though. And I know what he means.

[Anodizer]

I think Karaya didn't wait long enough to break. It always amazes me when people turn right in front of me like that. They are begging to get shot. You can avoid the HO without breaking so early. The best way to avoid the HO is with subtle movements. You dont have to hard break like that. My theory being that the people who HO cant hit jack to begin with, and the people who CAN aim usually don't stoop to the HO on a 1v1 merge. I don't really know what was in Anodizor's head during that merge. Who knows if he was planning the HO the whole time, but when you turn in front of someone and give them a shot, you gotta expect they are gonna take it.

I'm by far the worst shot in the game...  I'll be the first to admit...  My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot....  No head-on intended...  

[1pLUs44]

I'm by far the worst shot in the game...  I'll be the first to admit...  My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot....  No head-on intended...  

Don't worry about it dude.

Don't get too defensive if this drags out to 10 or 12 pages. IMHO, you shoulda just let it drop,and forgotten about it right then and there.

[grizz441]

I'm by far the worst shot in the game...  I'll be the first to admit...  My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot....  No head-on intended...  

To be perfectly honest, you didn't attempt to create an angles advantage (acm) before the merge.  You let Karaya get angles on you by getting underneath and I'm wondering why he didn't pull up around and pursue you.

[Guppy35]

I'v merged with you a few times.  HO every time.

LOL that's like saying you are nothing but a picker Steve.  Neither is true.  I fly with Ano in the Headhunters.  He was in that same fight down low that you were in last night.  I enjoy flying with him and know how he fights.  If he was such a poor player, he wouldn't be flying in my squad

I seem to recall this same debate going on with Grizz and Shane a while back.  Shane was jumping the merge hoping for Grizz not to shoot and got shot, then called HO.  Now Grizz is saying the same thing Shane said then to Ano.  Irony to me is the last time I ran into Grizz was a situation where I cheated on the merge a little soon in my 38G and his 152 blew me away as he took the shot.  I thought nothing of it, because it was my mistake to show my front quarter like that.  

Unless you set it up ahead of time, in the MA it's always a chance when you show the front quarter you'll get shot.  I don't like HO shots as much as the next guy, but if the guy tries to sneak under me and shows me the canopy and top of the engine, I'll shoot unless it's a set up merge like a week ago or so when Agent360 and I met at 2K near the TT island and cold merged each time.  But we knew who we were fighting then.

Much ado about nothing in calling it a HO.  It wasn't.

[AWwrgwy]

Is it widely considered that this type of shot is a ho????  Other veterans have done this shot on me and when I drew to question, I was explained it was a front quarter shot....
If this is universally considered a head-on shot, forgive me as I thought it was more than obvious I was not trying to perform a head-on shot AND I'd like to point out that had I thought the Spit9 was going to go head-on, I would've avoided the ho as well....  It just didn't register as a head-on shot to me....  I don't even think it was a merge..  Just a bunch of guys flying around and I decided to point my P-38 at his Spit9 and it went from there....  After all the flying around that went on before hand, I wouldn't even consider this the 1st merge..  However, I digress since I didn't get the first few minutes preceding what you've seen already....

You answer your own question right here.  If it happens to you, it's a HO.  If you're doing it then it's a "front quarter shot."  I think it would have been less of a "HO" if you had followed through instead of extending...forever.  It was more of a "kick a lot of rudder, maybe I can hit him" shot than a HO.  But, on the receiving end, it's still a HO.

Karaya, comments like "the 38 shows his poor gunnery"....  Do you really need to spout stuff like this?  Is it necessary?  Get over yourself, man...  Seriously....

Pretty benign, chest thumping comment.  Personally, I don't tune 200.  If this is all it takes to get your goat maybe you shouldn't either.


wrongway

[grizz441]

LOL that's like saying you are nothing but a picker Steve.  Neither is true.  I fly with Ano in the Headhunters.  He was in that same fight down low that you were in last night.  I enjoy flying with him and know how he fights.  If he was such a poor player, he wouldn't be flying in my squad

I seem to recall this same debate going on with Grizz and Shane a while back.  Shane was jumping the merge hoping for Grizz not to shoot and got shot, then called HO.  Now Grizz is saying the same thing Shane said then to Ano.  Irony to me is the last time I ran into Grizz was a situation where I cheated on the merge a little soon in my 38G and his 152 blew me away as he took the shot.  I thought nothing of it, because it was my mistake to show my front quarter like that.  

I don't remember exactly but I could have shot you on a similar angle.  I'm assuming I was coming down at you in some regard and doubt it was a straight line trajectory, but I do HO sometimes based on the situation.  Never said I don't HO.  Typically my HO's are when a plane completes his turn around on me as I am firing at him.  If i'm in a 152 with those cannons, it's almost certain I will kill the guy before he can even get guns on me.  I never "joust" though.

As far as with Shane, I was pursuing him, he didn't finish his turn, and pulled up in front of my guns.  It was an entirely different situation and Shane never said it was a HO.  That was quite a few months ago, I've logged over 1000 duels since then and have developed a much different outlook on the dynamic of the fight.

[Urchin]

I think a lot of people label what I view as Aces' High "special" reenactment of the medieval joust as a "HO". 

Not going to bother watching the film, from the way it was described Anodizer had his lance couched as he was charging down the list, and Karaya decided he didn't want to joust.   

Basically, Sir Anodizer, Karaya is saying that by couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze, you were committing to the "HO". 

That is how I see it, anyway. 

P.S.  It really only takes one to joust - it is just a heck of a lot harder to successfully drive the lance home on an unchivelrous cad who refuses to joust correctly.