Author Topic: WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness  (Read 4197 times)

Offline Tony Williams

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« on: February 22, 2001, 01:42:00 PM »
I thought some of you might be interested in a summary I have put together in response to a query....go to:
 http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages/?msg=57.1

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/

LJK Raubvogel

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2001, 02:31:00 PM »
Thanks Tony, good stuff.

Offline Vermillion

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2001, 02:58:00 PM »
Thanks for the info, nice reading.

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Offline brady

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2001, 09:24:00 PM »
 Ty Sir  

Brady

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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 02-22-2001).]

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2001, 12:15:00 AM »
Do you think its appropriat for AH to ignore the HE rounds in the mg131/13? where they really that ineffective?

Offline Tony Williams

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2001, 01:36:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo:
Do you think its appropriat for AH to ignore the HE rounds in the mg131/13? where they really that ineffective?

I doubt that they were very effective, but they were better than ball rounds.

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/  



Offline gatt

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2001, 03:10:00 AM »
Same problem we have with missing 12,7mm HE shells in C.202 and C.205.
Tony take a look here (.avi film):
Breda's 12,7mm hits
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2001, 03:24:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by gatt:
Same problem we have with missing 12,7mm HE shells in C.202 and C.205.
Tony take a look here (.avi film):
Breda's 12,7mm hits

Wow impressive film!

Camo

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2001, 04:58:00 AM »
I want the German version of that 13mm HE in my 109! Impressive.  

Offline gatt

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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2001, 05:20:00 AM »
Image kindly provided by Tony Williams. Note the size of the 12,7mm Breda HE compared to the 13mm HE MG131 and, above all, the size of the Browning.

       


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 02-23-2001).]
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Jimdandy

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2001, 08:19:00 AM »
The 7.7 Breda isn't any more than a .300 Winchester Magnum (Big game rife cartridge). For that matter there are people that use the Browning .50 cal to hunt Elk at long range. I wouldn't have guessed that the Browning .50 was that much larger than the other 12.7mm rounds. I'm assuming that the Browning round also packed more powder in the cartridge and was a higher velocity round. Nice photo thx.

Offline juzz

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2001, 08:35:00 AM »
Damage modelling seems to be the worst part of every combat flight sim. In AH it's quite digital - you can pound the crap out of someones plane, but unless you meet the "X" value to actually break something, they seem to take no damage. All damageable parts of the plane are either 100% funtional, or completely gone.

Eg: You put a 30mm MK 108 round into someones wing. Unfortunately it doesn't do enough "damage" to remove the wing, and they fly on their merry way. In reality, that wing would have a big fat hole in it - and the internal parts like fuel lines, control cables, electrical wiring, etc. may have taken damage that could very well cause further damage, or make the plane unflyable.

Offline flakbait

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WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2001, 10:13:00 AM »
Remember that image Pyro has showing a shell comparison? I edited it with the caliber and casing length of each round. It is a bit big (60K+) but if anyone wants a look I can post it.


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number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb

 

Offline Jimdandy

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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2001, 10:20:00 AM »
Sure flak post it. IMFO it would be nice to see.  

Offline Tony Williams

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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2001, 02:53:00 PM »
Nice film, Gatt!

For the record, the 7.7mm Breda was exactly the same as the .303 British, so a lot less powerful than the .300 Winchester Magnum.  Also, the Soviet 12.7x108 cartridge is slightly larger than the Browning's, and the 13.2mm Hotchkiss (used in the Japanese Navy's 13mm Type 3) was basically the same size as the .50 Browning but with a slightly larger calibre.

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/