WW2 aircraft gun effectiveness

[funked]

Tony would you be quiet, it's going to spoil your book for me when it arrives!!!  

[Tony Williams]

I do try, but I just can't resist!  

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/  

[Jigster]

Randomly throw out 1/2 to 1/3 of all cannon shells (depending on whatever ratio is used for the mixed belt effect) that hit an armored surface to simulate the resultant surface detenation of HE cannon shells upon impact. External componets would still be vulnerable to the entire load.

It would be a stopgap gameplay concession, like so many other things to accomadate certain aspects of the game.

 

[funked]

You guys do realize that on most of the planes in AH, the only armored surface that could stop even a rifle-caliber MG round was behind the pilot?

[LJK Raubvogel]

And right in front of the pilot's eyes Funked  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Hooligan:
An AP/I round is much better against pilot armor.  An HE round is much better against a rudder or elevator.  

I would more likely shoot my AP/Is into fuel tank  

[Jigster]

You do realize that is in regard to AFV's, right?

Just about any cannon shell that exploded upon impact of the pilot armor in a plane would at the least leave the pilot unconscious from the concussion. I figured it'd be redundent to state the obvious

 

[brady]

 A simple reminder in regard to Japanese ammo loading, their aircraft carried almost all HEI, their AP round was also the tracer round so was loaded along the lines of 1 AP/tracer for every 4 or 5 HEI rounds, this is in keeping with the Japanese theory of destroying the aircraft's ability to fly by blowing chunks of it away, rather than drilling holes in it.


Brady

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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 02-27-2001).]

[Hooligan]

Jigster wrote:

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Just about any cannon shell that exploded upon impact of the pilot armor in a plane would at the least leave the pilot unconscious from the concussion. I figured it'd be redundent to state the obvious.
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I think you are dreaming.  A 20mm HE shell contained from about 4g to about 20g of HE.  For reference a US Grenade contained 114g of HE.

Hooligan

[Vermillion]

Hooligan, did the US Grenade actually have HE in it? Honest question.

I was watching one of the many WWII shows on the History Channel, a month or two back, and it said that the US grenade was simply filled with black powder around a machined steel casing.

They were then showing some of the original Pac film footage at Okinawa and Iwo Jima, showing Marines using the grenades, and the blasts were very smokey, leading me to believe the story they were telling.

Of course I have seen those shows be VERY wrong before. And I have no clue what the truth is.



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Jigster]

If your going to try and nitpick, take into account it's tounge in cheek.

However a hit on the head plate would more then likely daze the pilot a bit; a good sized firecracker could knock someone out at such proximity in a confined space like that.

And Verm they typically used TNT, where as now the use a mixture of RDX and TNT, and sometimes pentolite. Sometimes other stuff was used, and if it was pre-WWII theres a chance it might of had some black powder mixed in.

Most bombs and shells the US used were mostly RDX with a smaller TNT mixture -- RDX was about 1.5X more powerful then TNT.

[pzvg]

think, (not sure books are buried under junk)
that only black powder grenades date back to 1914, black powder having an uneven burn rate was found to be unsatisfactory for explosive filler, hence development of RDX/TNT.
Hey Tony, since you have the materials to be,
ahem, "The authority"   do a comparison of 20mm,30mm,and 75mm shells as far as pene,KE,and explosive force, I don't know enough about aircraft armaments to comment on those, but the 75mm Kwk L48 on the IVH seems a bit weak, in both hitting power and range.
Btw, where can I get your book? always willing to add to collection  

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Tony Williams]

Difficult one to answer as there were huge differences between the different 20mm, 30mm and 75mm guns.

Try looking for the "WW2 Aircraft Gun Hitting Power" thread under the "Aircraft Guns" list at:
 http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages/

Look on my website (below) to find out more about where to get my book.

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/