Author Topic: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?  (Read 1954 times)

Offline TracerX

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Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« on: March 27, 2009, 02:17:07 PM »
I flew one or two of the S3 events (The Haze), and I don't have a good frame of reference since I was still trying to get used to flying the wacky plane models they have in Warbirds, but it seemed to be an extremely well organized event.  S3 has more planes available, but FSO has way more maps, a built in radio, and a better flight model.  Aside from the people in the event, what is keeping them from switching to FSO in AH?  I even think that they have to pay extra to play in S3 right?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 02:21:29 PM by TracerX »

Offline Chapel

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Re: FSO vs. S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 02:28:43 PM »
I think many of them just aren't intrested in learning a new flight model/game. They may have tried a 2 week trial, and got thier tails handed to them, and decided they didn't want to have to re-learn a game and the flight models.

S3 is a very well organized and structured event, I enjoyed it for many years. But the lack of development and support eventually drove me to looking for a different alternative. Of course, the organization was based around 60-100 players per side, and much easier to deal with than say 250 players per side.

The S3 had (when I flew) more involvement and details associated with it compared to FSO. There was an additional cost to flying the S3, unless you had the unlimited account which was $20-25 bucks a month if I remember correctly.

The single biggest difference between FSO and S3's that I can differentiate, is that there is a definate focus on remaining alive and keeping your plane in working order. Penalties and shortages of aircraft, especially better ones, was a definate issue in many S3. If your side foolishly wasted your aircraft, then the better model planes weren't available in the later frames. When there's 5 frames, 3 hrs long each, that turns into a real diliema sometimes.


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Offline TracerX

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Re: FSO vs. S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2009, 02:40:47 PM »
The single biggest difference between FSO and S3's that I can differentiate, is that there is a definate focus on remaining alive and keeping your plane in working order. Penalties and shortages of aircraft, especially better ones, was a definate issue in many S3. If your side foolishly wasted your aircraft, then the better model planes weren't available in the later frames.

That is a good point.  You do get that feel of stay alive at all costs more than in FSO.  A good thing to think about, I know we are always trying to improve the FSO event.

Offline daddog

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009, 03:45:05 PM »
I actually never flew in an S3, but the S3 organizers/designers rock.

Back in 2001 when I was designing FSO (Tour of Duty back then) several of them gave me advice. Fd-ski and I in particular went back and forth on the FSO design. 

As Chapel said there is a significant difference the stress of staying alive. Some shared with me over the years they felt it was too much stress and it actually subtracted from their enjoyment. I am sure that just depends on the individual. All and all I think the CM’s have hit on a nice fit for Aces High with FSO. No doubt about its popularity within the Aces High community. As for the S3’s, IMHO is one of the reasons WB is still alive.
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Offline TracerX

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »
Nice DD.  Fantastic job with that FSO thing by the way! :aok 

The original question came to mind after I just visited the S3 website.  FSO has topped 500 players for the last 3 or so FSO series, and it does not seem that the S3 event is growing much at all.  I thought that there might be lots of S3 guys here in FSO now, and wondered what they thought of the event.

Offline Bino

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 07:54:49 PM »
I flew in a bunch of the S3 events, initially with Fletch's JG54.  I eventually got burned out and quit WarBirds for a while.  But then I rejoined for about a year, specifically to fly S3 events with Vadr's JG2. (Ja, I'm a LuftDweeb.  ;) ) The first several S3's I flew were *great* fun.  But the later designs kinda "jumped the shark", and got all wrapped up in screwy minutiae, IMHO.  Wonderful bunch of people, though: really smart & funny & dedicated.  Pity that Wild Bill let them all down so badly.

Comparing S3 & FSO is a little like apples & oranges, to me.  For example, when I was still there, S3 did not have the tactical constraints that FSO has (i.e., mandatory targets, attack by T+x, etc.)  I'm sure having fun in FSO.  Thanks very much for putting on such a good show here.   :salute


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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 09:47:17 PM »
Nice DD.  Fantastic job with that FSO thing by the way! :aok 

The original question came to mind after I just visited the S3 website.  FSO has topped 500 players for the last 3 or so FSO series, and it does not seem that the S3 event is growing much at all.  I thought that there might be lots of S3 guys here in FSO now, and wondered what they thought of the event.

The event in Fighter Ace 3, only one I was at (pearl harbor) was like 400 people :O
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2009, 11:25:18 PM »
Many, many years ago...when it was $2/hr.

I think we could benefit from a little more incentive for staying alive... People are far more worried about getting action than flying like it means something.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 11:28:57 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2009, 11:58:00 PM »
Many, many years ago...when it was $2/hr.

I think we could benefit from a little more incentive for staying alive... People are far more worried about getting action than flying like it means something.

If they actually die, or get captured, they can't fly the first 30 minutes of the next frame?
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Offline jocko-

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 01:03:45 AM »
If memory serves, the very first S3 ('Three Days in August', a BoB scenario) had a rule that you only had 3 'lives' allocated to you over the course of the 5 frames. If you got killed or captured 3 times you sat out the last two frames. Brought a little bit of combat attrition into the mix and made you a bit more discerning wrt tactics. That was 10 years ago, I don't remember if there was an extra charge for the S3s back then, any time spent online was 2 USD/hour until they came up with the flat rate charge.
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Offline Bino

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 11:04:42 AM »
...
Aside from the people in the event, what is keeping them from switching to FSO in AH?
...

According to what I hear from the very few JG2 guys still flying S3, that's the primary thing: the people in the event.


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Offline TracerX

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 03:02:21 AM »
According to what I hear from the very few JG2 guys still flying S3, that's the primary thing: the people in the event.


That is what I figured Bino.  We have a great community here, shure would be nice to have some of those chaps give FSO a try, I think they would like it.  About 2 years ago, I got in a discussion on their boards to see what they though of AH and it was almost like trying to convert a Muslim to Christianity.  Lots of people with very strong opinions about AH or Warbirds that kinda removes the opportunity for open discussion.  Still, it seems like people are slowly making their way over to AH and FSO.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 02:09:21 PM »
I'm not sure that comparing S3 to FSO is the proper comparison.  It seems to me that S3 is more comparable to our Scenarios.
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Offline Bino

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2009, 03:02:01 PM »
I'm not sure that comparing S3 to FSO is the proper comparison.  It seems to me that S3 is more comparable to our Scenarios.

The WarBirds Squadron Select Series is a registered-squad-only event that occurs on a regular schedule.  The designs of the Frame set-ups might be different, but the basic premise is pretty similar, IMHO.  The S3 designs seem to put more of a premium on staying alive (i.e., S3 scoring, medals), rather than making sure that everyone sees action (i.e., FSO mandatory attacks, attack timing).  Not saying that I personally prefer one to the other, really, as I find they both have their good points.

WB also had (still has?) big, formal historical Scenarios that happened once or maybe twice a year, with registrations and all.  And they had small weekly Scenario Lite "historically flavored" events that were very impromptu, with folks showing up only minutes beforehand. I ran a whole bunch of those SLs as a CM, and even took over from Roan for a while as the CM Trainer.


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Offline chumly2

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Re: Anyone fly S3 from Warbirds?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2009, 03:12:14 PM »
Hey Beeno!


I flew many JG2 missions with you way back when.  I still get email from those guys.  Good to see you.

Chumly



According to what I hear from the very few JG2 guys still flying S3, that's the primary thing: the people in the event.