OPERATION: Jubilee, April FSO

[Krusty]

B-25 damage model is kinda off, IMO. They soak up ungodly amounts of ammo. I'm surprised 109Fs were going after them, as they simply don't have enough firepower to take down even 1 B-25C.

However, keep in mind the B-25C only has 1 turret. He's got more of a point when you consider B26s, B17s, B24s, etc. Things more capable of defending themselves.

[daddog]

What about the warps?  What can CM's do about warping drones?

We lost several B-25's to the 109F last night. IMHO the B-25C is not much better than a Boston. They are an easy kill. Go under them or right behind them and you can serve yourself.

PFactor is right. Turning off drones would greatly tip the balance in favor of interceptors in most designs.

Take an early war Pacific event with A6M2's VS B-26's or B-17 and I can see turning off drones, Krusty said it, they can defend themselves. In fact we have many times over the years removed the drone option for early Pac events with Allied bombers.

Of course if anyone want to fly a B-25C without drones, I am sure they would be more than welcome to.

[TUK]

WE (13Th MPG) were tasked with the defense of A49. We had 14 109F's and our sister squad was The Blind Bats, also with 109's.  After fighting the 18k wind gusts'  we got great intel from zoozoo of the J/J's.  'B25's otw ' 20 sets, with spit and hurri escorts.' The 13th had alt, and dived on the 25's with some success, hitting them as they were dropping over the field. Was a great battle, as we mixed in-and- out of the formations chewing at their wingroots and tails. Want to thank Mbailey and his boys for the help. Was fun! See you guys next week..   Tuk151  Co 13TH MPG

[Anaxogoras]

What about the warps?  What can CM's do about warping drones?

That drones warp as much as they do denies them a place in FSO (and I would argue, the game in general).  Turn 'em off and let the players decide how to adapt.

[Shifty]

"Turn 'em off and let the players decide how to adapt."

Or leave them on and learn how to adapt yourself. One solution would be to target the lead bomber and not the drones.

I don't recall seeing drones warping excessively unless the pilot is making hard maneuvers. If that's the case he's taking a chance on losing his drones or missing his target.
I agree with Daddog about the B-25C. A few weeks back during IJ/VVS setup I got behind a large formation of B-25C and shot down five at my liesure.
If I wasn't such a lousy shot I could have probably gotten more. They have no protection from a low six o clock attack. Once I had settled down I was able to just ease up behind them and dispatch them will little problem. The B-25C models really needs the drones to have a chance of making it to the target IMO.

We in VF-17 have done fleet defense four out of the last six FSOs. I realize how hard it is and how frustrated you can get but it's not the fault of drones. Maybe bumping up the ack on the fleets will help or assigning larger CAPs. The battle plans coming out lately for attacking fleets with an advanced fighter sweep well ahead of the bombers and their escorts really makes defending fleets difficult for the CAP.

<S>

[daddog]

That drones warp as much as they do denies them a place in FSO (and I would argue, the game in general).  Turn 'em off and let the players decide how to adapt.

Sorry, that is not going to happen. Shifty said it, I think you better learn to adapt, with drones.

[Anaxogoras]

"Turn 'em off and let the players decide how to adapt."
I don't recall seeing drones warping excessively unless the pilot is making hard maneuvers. If that's the case he's taking a chance on losing his drones or missing his target.

I guess you didn't see your own Ju88s warping as they dive-bombed the fleet yesterday.

Sorry, that is not going to happen. Shifty said it, I think you better learn to adapt, with drones.

If I were a programmer I would not be happy enough with drones as they are to even add them to the game.

I will continue to disrespectfully disagree with the CMs on this one.  Title does not make right. 

[Shifty]

I guess you didn't see your own Ju88s warping as they dive-bombed the fleet yesterday.

Honestly I didn't notice the drones warping, but I was in a 109 and busy with Spits. 

Seriously I understand your frustration I've been there myself recently. It's hard to stay alive against an aggresive fighter sweep then have the bombers and their escorts come in after you've been worn down a bit and turn the fleet into an oil slick.
I'm not trying to give you grief just offer a possible solution like maybe targeting the lead bomber if you're getting warpy drones.
I doubt you're going to get rid of the drones. For what it's worth I thought you 334th FS guys did an outstanding job defending the fleet with the amount of hurt raining down on you.

<S>

[Stoney]

I will continue to disrespectfully disagree with the CMs on this one.  Title does not make right. 

1.  Right Drone, Left Drone, Lead--no warps at all if they are killed in this sequence.

2.  Sometimes, you need the formations in order to balance the number of bombers in a setup.  You want to argue the drone mechanics, don't complain to the CMs, start talking to HTC and getting them to make that a priority.  I sympathize with you on the warping thing, I really do.  I've lost my aircraft to a collision more times than I want to count, but I will still use formations in my setups when they are appropriate.  

3.  5th AF flew to target without drones last night.  A 5-ship mission was able to drop all but a few destroyers because we dove bombed.  To be honest, I had reminded the German pilots last night to fly single-ship, but apparently a few either missed that reminder, or blew me off.  Regardless, given our situation, not using drones made the most sense to me.  Especially since some Allied pilot picked up proxies on those drones that got lost in the dive maneuvers.  For the Allies on the other hand, medium altitude level bombing with medium bombers against fixed airfields makes sense, and are more conducive to using formations.

Last, Gavagai, I respect your opinion.  Don't make this a right or wrong issue.  I am a CM that designs these events, and I can tell you that drones are necessary when appropriate.

[Anaxogoras]

I know the order in which to attack bombers, and I also know to attack the lead if the drones are warping.  In fact, that's exactly what I did on Friday.

To me, it's not merely a playability issue, it's an eye sore; an embarrassment.  Every time I see drones warping around in this game I feel a little more foolish than normal for putting effort into it.  I hope that sheds light on my opinion.  Thanks for listening.

[mbailey]

WE (13Th MPG) were tasked with the defense of A49. We had 14 109F's and our sister squad was The Blind Bats, also with 109's.  After fighting the 18k wind gusts'  we got great intel from zoozoo of the J/J's.  'B25's otw ' 20 sets, with spit and hurri escorts.' The 13th had alt, and dived on the 25's with some success, hitting them as they were dropping over the field. Was a great battle, as we mixed in-and- out of the formations chewing at their wingroots and tails. Want to thank Mbailey and his boys for the help. Was fun! See you guys next week..   Tuk151  Co 13TH MPG

Thanks Tuk, was a great time flying with the 13MPG. Great bunch of guys. We really tore'em up this week. I dont think any allies left the skies of A49, and if they did i guarentee they were full of holes.
 The Blind Bats numbers were a little low this week, but we still managed to hold our own. Great intel from zoozoo <S> thanks for the heads up sir.

  13MPG

[68Wooley]

Saw a couple of comments earlier in the thread about the Hurri 2C.

Whilst its undeniably a great furballer, IMO its low top speed marginalizes it in FSOs and Scenarios.

On Friday, we were tasked with close escort to the Mongrels B25's attacking two enemy airbases. In level flight, we had about a 20 knot advantage over the B25's. Once engaged with defenders we inevitably fell behind and we're faced with the double problem of trying to disengage from enemy fighters we couldn't run away from to try and get back to bombers we couldn't catch up with.

That said, with the help of our forward fighter sweep, we did manage to get the buffs all the way to second field largely intact. It went to pieces after that. We were able to hold our own against the defenders whilst ammo lasted but we just couldn't get away from them. Most of us were picked off trying to disengage whilst bingo ammo.

As a defender, its just as problematic. It simply can't catch JU88's running at full tilt. We found this out in the BOB scenario albeit with MK 1s. At least here with the hispano's you have a chance of knocking a few of them down in the one or two passes you get before your in a futile tail chase.

I love the Hurris, but I don't think they're as effective in FSO's and scenarios as they are in the MA.