Could Someone Please Define a "HO"?

[Anaxogoras]

That looks like a rope.

[BlauK]

see...that's where you're wrong. you have the new guys, that either never took the time to learn, or just got on, or whatever, want a kill no matter the cost. all they know is ho n run. so they'll do it.......ho ya, run away, till you turn tail, then come back......repeat rinse.

No, they do not attempt an HO. The new guys typically attempt to shoot at the enemy at any cost. If the enemy also does that, then it may become an HO situation. It usually takes a more experienced guy to attack into HO intentionally.

That is the fundamental difference in our thinking.

If you decide to attempt an HO, it means that the enemy is already pointing his guns at you and you then turn into him. Typically this can happen when you have a better turning plane.
When it becomes an HO, your enemy will have to decide whether he wants the HO to happen, or will he try to avoid it. However, since he has had his guns on you before you turned into him, he is likely quite fast and cannot evade you so easily.

Thus a HOer is 1) the one who turns last into an HO and also 2) the other one who decides to continue his course towards the enemy when the enemy turns his guns into an HO.
In every HO there are 2 HOers.... or one HOer and the other one AFK or just not paying attention at all.

So if there ever is a situation where someone "gets HOed", it is like I described above. Trying to shoot at a more maneuverable plane which suddenly turns into you without you being able to abort your course. Even then you must have considered the possibility of his reaction before you decided to engage, so it is your own fault.

......

What we mostly read on the board about HOs are simply losers' whines when they got shot at from their frontal hemisphere without even a chance to shoot back at the enemy
These sore losers victimize themselves when they admit that they are not in control of their own playing... they get wronged because others do not play like these whiners would want them to. They are facing an impossible task of changing everyone else and that is why they whine.

The only way is to stop whining about others and to start carrying the responsibility of every action and every outcome by oneself. 

[CAP1]

me 38j vs c205(i think it was 205).

 heading for 1st merge.........i slip right with a slight dive......just as he tries to ho. he was shooting at 2k. i chopped throttle, lifted nose, rolled, and let her fall on her side, and was 800 out behind. firewall the throttles, nose down, he dives..i can't catch him, there's a couple hurris up ahead, so i give up chase, and climb. make a couple passes at one of the hurris, watching the c2 the whole time......as i'm setting up my 3rd pass, here comes mr c2. , so i finish my pass on the hurri, and set up for mr c2. i'm on my back, almost stalling, let the nose drop, and looking to drop in behind him, as i roll over. he pulls up right into me. i start to go into a slip, for some separation, throttles to idle to not overspeed.....as i start to slip, i see tracers........that's when i said the hell with it.......it was apparently all he had for me. it's not like he was outnumbered or anything. i got lucky. i won that time....i usually lose. either way, i guess i could've continued my evasive, but i fully agree with agent....had i done that, i'd have given him the advantage.

 i don't like to ho. i dont like to be ho'd. i like to fight. sometimes 1-1, or 1-2, sometimes i like to get down into the furball where you should never take a slow 38.

 this guy was a name i've seen before......and i think he's good enough that he doesn't need to ho........and that quite often is the case it seems anymore.

[Agent360]

Hiya Agent! Gud ta cya   .

I'm scratching my head. There's usally only one HO attempt. Most of the time the guy trying to HO will not get another chance. Personally, I have already gone for angles prior to my opponents trying to align for a HO and I'm pretty much on his 6 within a few seconds after his HO attempt. Then again I set up his pass to put me in postion to gain his 6 long before he ever gets to me.

What many folks don't understand is they think that a merge is an opening move when it may have already been a preordained kill when the guy was 1500 yards away from you. And the sad part is that he never even knew how easy is to "make" (is that a good word?) someone do exactly what you want them to do. What's more interesting is they fall for it over and over because they can't imagine that they have been set up for the kill. When I show them they go "huh?" Then the light comes on. THEN...they learn it but find out there's also a response to the response.

That's why I never worry about a HO. Don't get me wrong I've been caught on the deck with 3 on my 6 only to have someone come HO me from some angle I was turning to while looking back or when my graphics get so dark I can't even tell which way the guy was pointed. That's gonna happen and be acceptable until I do something about it.

But what makes this game so great is, for every move there is an equal counter move and for every counter move there is yet another equal counter move and so on. Kinda like chess, only at 300 mph. There is a dark side to it also...the guy that loops and loops and loops or does a flat turn, putting his nose up as high as he can get it, hoping, just, hoping the guy might not reach him.n Or how about the guy that cuts his engine or throttle nose up just hoping the guy will overshoot. KaaaaPowwwww...tower time. One single move does not a fighter pilot make.....(read HO).

Ren

 

Hi Ren,

My point is that one can not avoid a HO and keep the angles. Assuming a typical head on merge where two planes make a cold pass then turn he who make the best merge turn will have the initial angles. I do agree with you that this merge does not have to be close to each other. One could set up a merge like you say.

Now take this same kind of merge with guns hot. If you try to avoid the ho while the other guy makes the same merge as before you will give up the angles.

See this thread - page 8
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,244093.105.html
where Dedalos offers a challenge to prove this very point. I initially disagreed with him claiming that one who ho's allows me to make a lead turn becuase the ho er must hold the guns while I lead turn. I took his challenge and we did a few hours in the DA testing this out. And to my surprise he was right.

I also agree with you that one can set up a merge where there is not way for you to be ho'ed and still win the angles on the first turn...which is what I meant by the last paragraph in my earlier post.