P-47M/N?

[batdog]

I was wondering...since we have Niki's,Dora's P-51D's and such... why dont we have a P-47M or N? I copied this off a web site... the M appeared in 44.

The P-47M was a special high-speed version of the Thunderbolt specifically evolved to counter the Fieseler Fi 103 (V-1) buzz bomb and the new jet- and rocket-powered fighters that were entering service with the Luftwaffe.

Four P-47D-27-RE airframes (serials 42-27385/27388) were taken off the production line at Farmingdale and fitted with the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57(C) engine equipped with a larger CH-5 turbosupercharger. This new engine offered a war emergency power of 2800 hp at 32,500 feet with water injection. Air brakes were fitted underneath the wings to aid in deceleration during dives. These four converted P-47Ds were redesignated YP-47M.

This new engine installation was ordered into production in September 1944 for the last 130 P-47D-30-RE aircraft delivered by Farmingdale, the aircraft being subsequently redesignated P-47M-1-RE. The serial numbers of the 130 P-47M-1-RE Thunderbolts built were 44-21108/21237

The first P-47M was delivered in December 1944, and they were rushed to the 56th Fighter Group in Europe. However, engine problems delayed their use until the last few weeks of the war in Europe. Underwing racks were not fitted, as the P-47M was meant to be operated strictly as a fighter.

Performance of the P-47M-1-RE included a maximum speed of 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 470 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3500 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2650 feet per minute at 20,000 feet. Range (clean) was 560 miles at 10,000 feet. Armament was six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns with 267 or 425 rpg. Weights were 10,432 pounds empty, 13,275 pounds normal loaded, and 15,500 pounds maximum. Dimension were wingspan 40 feet 9 3/8 inches, length 36 feet 4 inches, height 14 feet 7 inches, and wing area 308 square feet.

Sources:

American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.


The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.


War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.


United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.


The Republic P-47D Thunderbolt, Aircraft in Profile, Edward Shacklady, Doubleday, 1969.


Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.


Thunderbolt: A Documentary History of the Republic P-47, Roger Freeman, Motorbooks, 1992.


Hers's some info on the N...

The P-47N version of the Thunderbolt was the last version to be manufactured in quantity. It was a specialized long-range version built specifically for service in the Pacific theatre.

Four P-47D-27-RE airframes (serials 42-27385/27388) had been taken off the production line at Farmingdale and fitted with the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57(C) engine driving a larger CH-5 turbosupercharger. This engine could produce a war emergency power of 2800 hp at 32,500 feet with water injection. These aircraft had been redesignated YP-47M and served as the prototypes for the P-47M series.

However, the war in the Pacific required fighter ranges even greater than did operations over Germany. In pursuit of better long-range performance, in mid-1944 the third YP-47M prototype (42-27387) was fitted with a new "wet" wing of slightly larger span and area. The aircraft was redesignated XP-47N. For the first time in the Thunderbolt series fuel was carried in the wings, a 93 US gallon tank being fitted in each wing. When maximum external tankage was carried, this brought the total fuel load of the XP-47N up to an impressive 1266 US gallons. This fuel load make it possible for a range of 2350 miles to be achieved.

The new wing also incorporated larger ailerons and squared-off wingtips. These innovations enhanced the roll-rate of the Thunderbolt and improved the maneuverability. The dorsal fin behind the bubble canopy was somewhat larger than that on the P-47D. However, the increased fuel load increased the gross weight of the aircraft. In order to cope with the increased gross weight, the undercarriage of the XP-47N had to be strengthened, which increased the weight still further. The maximum weight rose to over 20,000 pounds.

The XP-47N flew for the first time on July 22, 1944. Such was the USAAF confidence in the Thunderbolt design that they went ahead and ordered 1900 P-47Ns in June 20, 1944, even before the first XP-47N had flown.

The P-47N was destined to be the last version of the Thunderbolt to be manufactured. The first P-47N-1-RE appeared in September of 1944, and 24 were delivered by year's end. The P-47N-5-RE and subsequent batches had zero-length rocket launchers added. The R-2800-77 engine was installed in late production models such as the P-47N-25-RE.

The P-47N gave excellent service in the Pacific in the last year of the War, particularly in escorting B-29 Superfortress bombers in raids on the Japanese mainland. P-47Ns were able to escort the bombers all the way from Saipan to Japan and on many other long, overwater flights.

A total of 1667 P-47Ns was produced by the Farmingdale plant between December 1944 and December 1945, when the Thunderbolt line finally closed down. 149 more P-47Ns were built by the Evansville factory. V-J Day cancellation of 5934 Thunderbolts brought production of the type abruptly to an end.

Performance of the P-47N-5-RE included a maximum speed of 397 mph at 10,000 feet, 448 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 460 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 2770 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2550 feet per minute at 20,000 feet. Range (clean) was 800 miles at 10,000 feet. Armanent included six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns with 500 rpg and two 1000-lb or three 500-lb bombs or ten 5-inch rockets. Weights were 11,000 pounds empty, 16,300 pounds normal loaded, and 20,700 pounds maximum. Dimension were wingspan 42 feet 7 inches, length 36 feet 4 inches, height 14 feet 7 inches, and wing area 322 square feet.

Serials of the P-47N were:

44-87784/88333    Republic P-47N-1-RE Thunderbolt
44-88334/88883  Republic P-47N-5-RE Thunderbolt
44-88884/89083  Republic P-47N-15-RE Thunderbolt
44-89084/89283  Republic P-47N-20-RE Thunderbolt
44-89284/89450  Republic P-47N-25-RE Thunderbolt
45-49975/50123  Republic P-47N-20-RA Thunderbolt

Sources:

American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.


The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.


War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.


United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.


The Republic P-47D Thunderbolt, Aircraft in Profile, Edward Shacklady, Doubleday, 1969.


Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.


Thunderbolt: A Documentary History of the Republic P-47, Roger Freeman, Motorbooks, 1992.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]

[eddiek]

Yup, addition of the M model would be very nice for Jug lovers.
Not to nitpick, but there is also info out there that says that the prototype for the M was in existence over a year prior to the V-1 threat.

"With the coming of June '44, something besides the invasion of France was on the minds of the people of Britain. On night of June 12-13 the Germans launched the first of over 6,700 V-1 flying bombs. This was the first of Hitler's Vengeance Weapons. They created near panic in Britain. While not exceptionally effective weapons in a strategic sense, they were effective at pulling RAF resources away from prosecuting the war to defending the airspace over Britain. Moreover, the V-1 (and later V-2 ballistic missile) did more to hurt British home front morale than did the air Blitz of 1940-41. The British government turned to the United States for assistance.

Eventually, Republic was informed of the British request for a high speed interceptor specifically to chase down and destroy the V-1. Remarkably, Republic already had a solution in hand. This would take the form of the the incredibly fast P-47M-1-RE. Let's go back more than a year and see how Republic came to have this speedster in their vest pocket when the British inspired inquiry arrived."
"The XP-47M was, essentially, developed collaterally with the XP-47J. The J was fitted with a high output version of the P&W R-2800. Specifically, the R-2800-57. This engine made 2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm at 35,000 feet. This is in War Emergency Power. The aircraft actually attained 507 mph at an altitude of 34,300 feet. 2,800 hp is 133% of rated power. At military power (100%), the XP-47J could sustain 470 mph. 435 mph was attained at 81% of it's rated power (1,700 hp). All performance figures were obtained at 34,300 feet. The J model was an especially good climbing fighter too. It had a climb rate at sea level of 4,900 fpm. At 20,000 feet, it was still rocketing up at 4,400 fpm, and got there in 4 minutes, 15 seconds. Time to 30,000 feet was only 6 minutes, 45 seconds. Now that's an interceptor! Yet it had a usable range of 1,075 miles. Rather impressive performance. Nor was this a stripped down hotrod. It was fully armed and carried ballast in the wings equal to 267 rds per gun. The aircraft was flown to a height of 46,500 feet and was capable of a bit more."
"Right out of the starting gate, the XP-47M the horse to beat in terms of speed. The XP-47M proved to be nearly as fast as the XP-47J. 488 mph was obtained on at least one flight. The official maximum speed is 470 mph. However, over-boosting the engine could tweak another 15 to 20 mph out of the big fighter. Some may find this next tidbit hard to swallow, however, the test documents still exist.

During durability testing of the C series R-2800 by Republic, it was decided to find out at what manifold pressure and carburetor temperature caused detonation. The technicians at Republic ran the engine at extreme boost pressures that produced 3,600 hp! But wait, it gets even more amazing. They ran it at 3,600 hp for 250 hours, without any failure! This was with common 100 octane avgas. No special fuels were used. Granted, the engines were largely used up, but survived without a single component failure. Try this with Rolls Royce Merlin or Allison V-1710 and see what happens.

As mid June of 1944 arrived, so did the first of Germany's Vengeance weapons. Flying at speeds right around 400 mph., the V-1 was not easy to intercept prior to flying over populated areas, where knocking it down could have a worse effect than leaving it alone. Many of the RAF's latest fighters were thrown into intercepting the "Buzz Bombs", preferably over the English Channel. Tempests, late Mark Spitfires and even the jet powered (but not especially fast) Meteors were put to work intercepting the deadly "Doodle Bugs"."
"Upon the USAAF being informed of the XP-47M, three YP-47M development aircraft were immediately ordered. These were built using P-47D-27-RE fighters straight off the production line. Having already logged hundreds of flights with the XP-47M, beginning in mid 1943, Republic had a big leg up in terms of development time. Actual production P-47M fighters used the P-47D-30-RE as the basic airframe.

The production P-47M fighters did not reach operational status until after many of the V-1 launch sites were over-run by Allied ground forces. Deployed to 3 squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group, the new fighter likely did not chase very many flying bombs. Inasmuch as most aviation historians claim that the P-47M was designed specifically to intercept the V-1, it will come as a surprise to them to learn that the prototype existed more than a year before the first V-1 was launched at Britain. Moreover, the P-47D, deployed in large numbers, was certainly fast enough to overtake the V-1. It was only coincidence that the XP-47M and the R-2800 C series engines were available when the V-1's began falling on London.

The new M models also suffered a fair amount of teething troubles. The C series engines suffered from high altitude ignition leaks and burned pistons. The 56th kept many of their older D models until the new M had its bugs corrected. Nonetheless, once sorted out, the P-47M was the fastest propeller driven fighter to see combat service in any Air Force in the ETO. Capable of speeds up to 475 mph, the M was a true "hotrod"."

I clipped and pasted the parts about the M model from this website:
 http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic7.html

Modelling an M shouldn't be that hard, as it was based on the D-30, which we already have.

[Hooligan]

At the rate HTC adds aircraft there is no doubt we will get them.  The only question is when?

Hooligan

[brady]

Cool though they are, we curentaly have more US stuff than any other Nation,I think we nead to let Japan, Itatly and Rusha, catch up a bit before adding another P 47, err US plane.

[Buzzbait]

S!

I love my Jugs but...

I don`t see the point of adding an aircraft like the P47M which only totaled around 300 aircraft in service, when planes like the Spit IXLF (over 3,000 produced) or the 109G6 with the DB605AM (methanol), or the P-47D Razorback with the paddleblade prop are not modelled.

The same with the Do-335.  This is a prime example of a prototype which was irrelevant in terms of wartime service.

And if the rumour of the P-51H turns out to be true, then the Sim might as well be re-named `Secret Weapons of Everybody", since we`ll no doubt be getting Bearcats and every other experimental one-off production model which ever hit the design board in the `40`s.

[Buzzbait]

S!

I take back my comments on the P-47N.  There were a large number produced, and it saw quite a bit of service against Japan.

[batdog]

Uhhh Brady, they tend to model more than ONE plane per release...  

xBAT

[SKurj]

Yeah Batdog, but I tend to agree with Brady on this one...
If HTC can release anything BUT US and German planes for the next couple of releases (German Hvy bomber is an exception) the planeset will be that much better for it

SKurj

[juzz]

Ahh but if they add the P-47M as a perk, at least the USAAF will have something to chase the Me 262 around with.

[batdog]

Well, if you take a step back I seriously doubt that they ie HTC are going to suddenly add a plane to whatever they are adding now.
IF for whatever reason they do decide to add this 47 it will be in later versions.Also lets not forget that I am a 47/38 driver and I am very biased of course. It WOULD though make the JUG more feasiable for the MA when facing the likes of the more common better planes of the latewar set.


 xBAT

[eddiek]

Funny thing is, batdog, we had NO clue the Jug was even in the works when they introduced it.  Just a new version, and BAM!  "Hey!  They added a P-47!"  
HTC is capable of adding a last second surprise, just to blow people's minds.  They sure blew mine that day.    

[SKurj]

xBat, I too mostly fly Jugs, we have 3 now... I am happy with what we have and don't mind sacrificing the M/N at the moment so that the planeset can get filled out.


SKurj

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Buzzbait:
S!

I love my Jugs but...

I don`t see the point of adding an aircraft like the P47M which only totaled around 300 aircraft in service, when planes like the Spit IXLF (over 3,000 produced) or the 109G6 with the DB605AM (methanol), or the P-47D Razorback with the paddleblade prop are not modelled.

Only 125 P-47M aircraft were constructed. Initially, none were fitted with underwing pylons to limit aero drag. However, since these aircraft did not begin combat operations until after the V-1 threat had largely abated, they were pressed into routine escort and interdiction service with the 56th FG. While they lacked the pylons, the wiring, plumbing and hardpoints were in place. So, most of the fighters had pylons fitted at the 8th AF overhaul facility and were soon flying daily ops until the surrender.

While the superlative M would be a hoot to fly and would be just about the most potent piston engine aircraft in the AH stable, it really was not deployed in the adequate numbers to justify its inclusion while so many more significant aircraft have yet to be modeled. Now, if HTC decided to include the much more common N model, that's a different story. Being very nearly as fast as the M, the P-47N benefitted from its redesigned wing with slightly greater range than the P-51D and a higher rate of roll than any model of the P-47D.

It is my opinion that there are many other aircraft that should be considered before the P-47M or N are added to the plane set.
Yet, extremely limited production fighters such as the Ta 152 have been added, which baffles me. Especially when some of the more common Spitfire models have yet to be included. Moreover, the very limited selection of Allied Naval aircraft should be addressed as well.

My regards,

Widewing

[Sancho]

Originally posted by eddiek:
Funny thing is, batdog, we had NO clue the Jug was even in the works when they introduced it.  Just a new version, and BAM!  "Hey!  They added a P-47!"  
HTC is capable of adding a last second surprise, just to blow people's minds.  They sure blew mine that day.    

It wasn't even a new version--it was a patch when they introduced the jug.  

[Daff]

"Only 125 P-47M aircraft were constructed"

Nitpicking here, but 130 were produced.
The 56th FG recieved them in December '44 and started using them in January. They had a lot of teething problems, mainly due to the electrical system.
It's worth noting that while loking at the factory performance, the 56th had already modified the wastegate on their existing P-47D's to the same manifold pressure as the P-47M (72"),so I'm not sure how big an improvement the P-47M really was. (The improved turbosupercharger would certainly have helped, though).
Also, while most books state that the P-47M only had 6 .50 cals, it was used with 8. (I dont know if they were installed at the factory or field).
 The P-47N uses the same engine as the M, the  main difference being the new wet clipped wing, improving the rollrate significantly.
While the pure performance numbers might not look as impressive as the M, one has to remember that it was carrying almost double the amount of fuel.

Daff