Questions about the Tiffie, not a whine :D

[funked]

*ponders why Fishu considers LW/Allied bias before examining the physics of climb rate when carrying a load*

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-2000).]

[Vladd]

From Osprey's 'Typhoon and Tempest Aces of WW2':

In the latter half of 1943 Sqd Ldr Desmond Scott of 486 Sqd engaged a captured Fw190 (formerly of SKG10)in a Typhoon and reported being;

"...surprised by it's speed and manoeuvrability. But I was confident I could get the better of it, providing we remained below 10000 feet. Above that altitude it was a different story. the higher we went the more like a carthorse I became..."

Later the same day Scott engaged a 190 for real at low level. It became a turning fight on the deck:

"I applied the pressure to get my sights ahead of him, but I kept losing my vision as the blood was forced out of my head... I could see him looking back at me on the other side of our tight circle. I knew he was experiencing the same effects, and although I could feel my aircraft staggering, I continued to apply the pressure. I was beginning to gain on him, but was still well off the required deflection. With my heart pounding in my throat, I applied some top rudder to get above him. Just as I did so, his wings gave a wobble and flicked over and hit the sea upside-down.
  "I saw the great shower of spray his aircraft sent up, but not much else. I blacked out, went out of control myself, and recovered from my downward plunge just clear of the water. According to Fitz I had spun upwards. it could easily have been the other way, and both myself and my LW opponent would have ended up under water."

The Tiffie had been a dissapointment for the RAF because of it's appalling early safety record and poor high altitude performance. Once the former had improved and the latter been accomodated by restricting the a./c to low altitude ops, the Tiffie was effective in an A-A role.

It's performance relative to that of the FW190 given above is interesting - compared to the two planes in AH, HTC's modelling seems pretty accurate. At low alt, they're a good match, pilot skill frequently being the decider.


Vladd

[funked]

I agree Vlad, except for one thing - the Typhoon's speed edge at low levels can be used more in AH than in real life due to the icon system.  If the Typhoon makes a level extension or makes a very high-speed climb he can always build up more energy than the Fw and then, because the icons let him keep sight and judge closure rate at extreme range, he can reverse and engage the Fw from an energy advantage.  In AH we are doing ACM at ranges where real pilots were struggling to get a tally or confirm friend or foe.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-2000).]

[juzz]

"Just as I did so, his wings gave a wobble and flicked over and hit the sea upside-down.
"I saw the great shower of spray his aircraft sent up, but not much else. I blacked out, went out of control myself, and recovered from my downward plunge just clear of the water. According to Fitz I had spun upwards."

Lucky for him the Typhoon's Napier Sabre engine spins in the opposite direction to the Fw 190's BMW 801, I'd say this is probably what caused his plane to spin up instead of down?

Oops, that bit of top rudder might have helped too.  

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-21-2000).]

[StSanta]

What funked said.

Also, that fight is a high speed turning one, where maneuverability isn't so much an issue on reasonably similar aircraft, but pilot endurance is.

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Staga]

Maybe one day HTC could put some nyances to the planes....

[cut]
However, the Sabre never managed to overcome its tendency to catch on fire on startup, with 28 Typhoons burned up in this fashion during 1944 and 1945. A well-known painting of a Typhoon in colors worn in the late summer of 1944 features the following text marked on the aircraft's radiator:

IF THIS ENGINE CATCHES FIRE ON STARTING, DON'T JUST WAVE YOUR ARMS AT THE PILOT -- TRY PUTTING THE BLOODY THING OUT AS WELL.

For better and for worse, the Sabre was a unique engine. Its starter system used what looked like a giant shotgun shell to get the big engine turned over with a loud bang, and once rolling it turned over at fantastic RPM. The Sabre had a distinctive whine that German troops learned to recognize and fear.
[/cut]
 

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Staga:
Maybe one day HTC could put some nyances to the planes....

[cut]
However, the Sabre never managed to overcome its tendency to catch on fire on startup, with 28 Typhoons burned up in this fashion during 1944 and 1945. A well-known painting of a Typhoon in colors worn in the late summer of 1944 features the following text marked on the aircraft's radiator:

IF THIS ENGINE CATCHES FIRE ON STARTING, DON'T JUST WAVE YOUR ARMS AT THE PILOT -- TRY PUTTING THE BLOODY THING OUT AS WELL.

For better and for worse, the Sabre was a unique engine. Its starter system used what looked like a giant shotgun shell to get the big engine turned over with a loud bang, and once rolling it turned over at fantastic RPM. The Sabre had a distinctive whine that German troops learned to recognize and fear.
[/cut]
 

Starter shells weren't exclusive to the Sabre either. Hehe, those things are cool  

- Jig

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

  Those sabre engines sound like crap, much worse than Merlin or DB605.  They have this nasty badly running engine sound like some giant POS 4 banger.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Dowding]

 

...RAF Fighter Command would not have been horribly disappointed by it and nearly canceled it.

The Typhoon was pushed very hurredly into service long before it was ready and pilots reacted accordingly. By the time it had its 'patches' ( ), such as a strengthened tailplane that wouldn't rip of in a dive, it was a very well liked plane.

[Fatty]

 

Originally posted by funked:
I agree Vlad, except for one thing - the Typhoon's speed edge at low levels can be used more in AH than in real life due to the icon system.  If the Typhoon makes a level extension or makes a very high-speed climb he can always build up more energy than the Fw and then, because the icons let him keep sight and judge closure rate at extreme range, he can reverse and engage the Fw from an energy advantage.  In AH we are doing ACM at ranges where real pilots were struggling to get a tally or confirm friend or foe.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-2000).]

I'm not a no-icon fan, but I think that's accurate.  I most certainly judge closure rates on both ends based on the icons, and make my decision to pull or extend based on relative speeds.

Also most underestimated by opponents in an E-happy arena is a fast low typhoon.  A shallow dive into a furball resulting in 400+ ground level flight can catch a LOT of slower planes on the top arc of a loop, as well as be enough speed to avoid bounces.

[flakbait]

Got something for you Typhoon nuts...

Typhoon enging and start sounds

The start sound needs work, and I'm still tinkering with it but the run sound is simply unreal. Crank that bad boy up and feel the floor vibrate! Literally!



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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[Dowding]

WTG Flakbait!   Was thinking about the lack of tiffie sounds here.

The engine run sound is awesome.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 10-25-2000).]

[-duma-]

flak, the run sound is UNBELIEVABLE!

Man I need a new subwoofer   That engine sound and Fishu / Mitsu's explosions..