Gents,
Here is an interview conducted by a Crash investigator with the 1 surviving pilot of the flight of 4 P-38's where Thomas McGuire and Maj.Rittenmyer were lost. It gives statement to the strong possibility that McGuire was shot down and did not stall spin as is generally accepted.
SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW
WITH 475th FG VETERAN
DOUGLAS S. THROPP Jr.
Conducted by David J. Mason
1. Thropp is currently 77 years old but remembers the McGuire Mishap Flight as if it happened yesterday.
2. Thropp earned his 2Lt. officers commission through ROTC.
3. Thropp was initially an infantry officer but in early 1943 when it became apparent that his unit was not going overseas he asked to be transferred to the Air Corps. He first went to Santa Anna, then King City, then Chico, then Williams Field, AZ. He flew the AT-6, AT-9, then the RP-322(non supercharged P-38). He graduated in Pilot Class 44A at Williams Field, AZ.
4. He was initially trained in the P-39 at Redmond, OR and was then transferred to Portland Field, OR to get checked out in the P-63. But the P-63 was canceled and he was transferred to Santa Maria, CA to check out in the P-38.
5. After P-38 training he was sent to Port Moresby, PNG to join the V Fighter Command in August 1944.
6. He was then sent to Hollandia to join up with the 475th FG and the 431st FS along with four other new guys.
7. He flew a few combat missions at Biak to Indonesia, Borneo and southern Philippines. He was then transported by ship to the new bases in the Philippines.
8. He flew his first combat missions in the Philippines from Dulag, Leyte. By the time of the mishap flight he had flown 53 combat missions and over 130 combat hours.
9. He shot down his first Japanese plane on 12-07-44 over the Celebes Strait. He was number 3 in a P-38 flight that was attacking a lone Japanese plane. On this flight the leader made a pass but missed, number two made a pass and missed, Thropp made a pass and the Japanese rolled over and crashed. Thropp got official credit and a Kudo from his flight lead who said "good shooting 123". Thropp was flying aircraft 123 that day.
10. The night before the mishap flight he was in his tent and heard that McGuire was in a tent close by. He went over to see what was going on and saw a group of 7 or 8 pilots sitting around talking. McGuire noticed him and said "Thropp, didn't I confirm a kill for you the other day?" Thropp said yes he did. McGuire said "you want to go on a sweep to Mindoro tomorrow with us?" Thropp said "Hell Yes!". McGuire said "OK, I'm going to go set it up". Maj Rittmayer and Captain Weaver were both standing right there. He understood from the conversation that the purpose of the sweep was to get McGuire three more kills. They were going to fly over some Japanese ships that were shelling US troops on the West coast of Mindoro Island. The Japanese would have to send up some land-based fighters to protect those ships. McGuire would have first dibs on any Japanese they saw. There was no mention of going to Negros Island.
11. The next morning he was woken up, dressed, had a bite to eat, then walked out to his plane. No briefing. He climbed into his plane strapped in, started engines, and taxied out behind Maj Rittmayer. The sun was just starting to come up.
12. Aircraft maintenance at the 431st was top notch. The aircraft were always in perfect condition. An aircraft was never sent out unless it was 100 per cent in order. That was a McGuire policy. If a crew chief could not keep his plane in perfect order he was transferred to some other Squadron. Only the best were kept at the 431st. To his knowledge there was nothing wrong with PUDGY V. It would have been very unusual if PUDGY V was not in 100 percent flying condition. Other than MacDonald’s PUTT PUTT MARU it had the highest priority on getting new/spare parts. McGuire’s crew chiefs were considered the best in the Squadron.
Thropp does not know if aircraft 112 was still painted as EILEEN-ANNE or if it had been repainted as KIM IV. He's not sure what the nickname was of the plane he was flying that day. His personal airplane 123 was nicknamed "EVELYNN " after his wife.
(Aerothentic comment : as Thropp indicates, the noseart issue has yet to be resolved, as Thropp has indicated. However, the Lightning in which McGuire was lost this day was P‑38L‑1-LO serial # 44-24845)
14. There was no Daddy Flight call sign used over the radio. They just used each others last names in the clear.
15. They took off at 5 second intervals and did a left turning rejoin.
16. They climbed over Leyte to around 10,000 feet but were in and out of the clouds the whole time. There wasn't much opportunity to look inside the cockpit at the instruments or the time clock.
17. The clouds were very thick and they had to fly close formation to see each other. They did not pull out of formation one at a time and test fire their guns.
18. After a while McGuire started a descent.
19. In the descent Rittmayer flying on McGuire’s left wing lost sight of McGuire and pulled his power back. Thropp pulled his power back and stayed on Rittmayer’s left wing.
20. This continued for a while more. Time element unknown.
21. By the time they broke out of the clouds McGuire and Weaver were 2 miles or more ahead.
22. McGuire asked over the radio, "Jack are you having any problems?".
23. Rittmayer said "I'm have a little trouble with an engine".
24. McGuire said "Thropp do you have me in sight?"
25. Thropp said "Affirmative".
26. McGuire said "Thropp take the lead and close it up".
27. Thropp does not believe Rittmayer had any problem with his engines.
28. Thropp added power and closed on McGuire and Weaver.
29. McGuire and Weaver did one small turn over Fabrica Strip. They did not hold there for five minutes.
30. Thropp did not see Fabrica Strip and thus did not see any Japanese planes there.
31. McGuire turned to the West with Weaver on his right side.
32. Thropp continued to close on McGuire with Rittmayer still about 1,000 feet behind.
33. When Thropp got within 500 feet Weaver called out "Bogie at 12 O'clock low". Weaver did not refer to the Japanese plane as a Zeke.
34. Thropp saw the bogie but was not sure if he should attack it head on. If you stole a kill away from McGuire you were in big trouble.
35. As soon as the bogie passed under McGuire he(McGuire) went into a left turn. McGuire called "Hold your tanks".
36. Thropp started to follow McGuire to the left but as he looked back he saw the bogie pull up and head right for him. He called McGuire and reported the bogie on his tail.
37. He continued his turn till he was heading South. He climbed toward the overcast deck.
38. He looked back and the bogie was still coming at him. Then it began firing at him.
39. He jinked up, left, then right. He does not believe he was hit.
40. Maj. Rittmayer came smoking in at very high speed and fired at the bogie with an 80-90 degree deflection shot. Rittmayer then overshot to the outside.
41. The bogie pulled up, kicked left rudder, rolled and pulled hard left, reversed his course, and dove on McGuire and Weaver. (This is called a wifferdill. This is a basic fighter maneuver that all air-to-air pilots must master. It involves using the vertical plane to turn around and reverse your direction as quickly as possible, but without losing excessive airspeed/energy.)
42. McGuire and Weaver were still maintaining a level turn in close formation. Weaver was still on McGuire’s right/outside wing. They had completed a 270 degree turn to the left and were beginning to head in the original westerly direction.
43. Thropp followed the bogie with his own left wifferdill. He was about to warn McGuire about the bogie heading across the circle towards them but Weaver called first and said "He's on me now".
44. The bogie came downhill fast, accelerating, cutting across the circle, pulling lead on McGuire and Weaver. Thropp then saw the bogie pull up to avoid colliding with McGuire and Weaver. He could not tell if the bogie had fired at McGuire or Weaver but it was pulling enough lead and it was well within range.
45. Thropp closed in on the bogie and when he was in range opened fire with the bogie in his gunsight. After three seconds of fire the bogie disappeared in the clouds heading North towards the ocean. He was disappointed that he missed.
46. Thropp turned left to the West and looked over to his left and saw a burning airplane on the ground. He thought it was Weaver. He thought Weaver was shot down by the bogies gunfire. Who else could it be he thought.
47. Thropp had no idea where McGuire or Rittmayer were.
48. When he looked back to the front the bogie reappeared coming right over his head at a distance of 30 meters. Guns blazing. He had no idea who it was firing on. He did not think the bogie was firing on him. He turned hard left and realized he still had his drop tanks on. His plane was feeling very heavy. He then jettisoned his tanks and turned left doing a 180 to go after the bogie. But he did not see the bogie right away.
49. He flew around for a few seconds and saw a second plane burning on the ground. Then he looked around for any other P-38's to join up with. After a few more seconds and a slow turn to the left he looked to his rear and saw the bogie closing on him again. He thought Son of a squeak.
50. He firewalled the throttles but noticed his left engine was not putting out full power. He saw 45 inches of manifold pressure on the left and 55 inches on the right. He headed for the cloud deck while keeping an eye on the bogie.
51. The bogie closed to within firing range. Then it fired.
52. Thropp saw the guns light up and he jinked left, the tracer bullets went wide right.
53. The bogie made a correction and fired.
54. Thropp saw the guns light up and he jinked right, the bullets went wide left.
55. The bogie made a correction and fired again.
56. Thropp saw the guns light up and pushed forward, the bullets went over the top of the canopy.
57. The bogie made a correction and fired.
58. Thropp thought I don't think this is going to work for much longer so he pulled up into the clouds and transitioned to instruments.
59. With his heart beating a million miles a minute he called for McGuire. Thinking what the hell is McGuire doing all this time.
60. But Weaver answered him. It was then that he realized that McGuire and Rittmayer had crashed. He thought "well this has been a damn fine morning!"
61. Thropp told Weaver that he wanted to join up with him but Weaver said he did not want to waste time looking for each other in the clouds and to RTB alone.
62. Thropp returned to Dulag alone, landed, and taxied in.
63. A crew chief came up and asked "where are the others". Thropp said "McGuire and Rittmayer are down and burning". The news spread like wildfire. The whole base knew before Weaver landed 10 minutes later.
64. Weaver arrived and taxied in.
65. Thropp looked over his plane and was surprised to see it had been hit. He could not remember being hit during the dogfight. There was a hole in the left engine turbo-charger and the right tail boom. He could not tell if they were 20mm or 12mm holes.
66. He proceed to the debriefing tent and told the Squadron Intel officer, Lt Hall, what had happened.
67. Later he was called to Col MacDonald’s office. When he came in Col Mac asked him "what the hell happened out there?" There were about 20 people in the room.
68. He told him what you have just finished reading.
69. He did not type up or sign any individual combat report. The combat report with his name on it was made up by someone else.
70. He later saw Weaver's combat report and was surprised to see so much detail in it. He also can not corroborate what Weaver says he was doing after the first engagement with the bogie.
71. He never saw Manapla strip.
72. He thinks the bogie could have shot down McGuire. It was well within range just before McGuire went down.
73. He did not see McGuire increase his turn, snap roll inverted or impact the ground. He does agree that McGuire and Weaver were about 300 feet high.
74. He did not see any ground fire at any time. He did not see the main dirt road that runs from East to West in that area.
75. At the time he could not positively identify what type of Japanese plane was involved. Due to the fact that he mostly had a view of it from the front with muzzle flashes obscuring his view. It appeared to have a green mottling camouflage and big red circles all over it.
76. He did not realize that there were two Japanese planes involved until Carroll "Andy" Anderson contacted him in the 1970's and told him that. He always thought there was just one. But it made sense to him that there could have been two planes not one.
77. He never claimed the shooting down of a Japanese plane that day because after he shot at it for three seconds and it disappeared into the clouds it reappeared and shot down Maj. Rittmayer. So it must not have suffered any damage from his guns. Or so he thought.
78. He talked to Weaver many times after this mishap flight but he did not say what they discussed. Or if they discussed the mishap flight.
79. He wants to talk to the Japanese pilot (Fukude) that was involved. If he is still alive.
80. He wants to go to McGuire AFB someday and see Pudgy V. He also wants to go back to the Philippines someday for a visit. He would also like to pay his respects at Arlington.
81. He also wants his story/version to be told.
82. If it can be confirmed that the aircraft he shot at did in fact crash into the jungle and was destroyed, then he would like to get credit for it.
83. He is willing to participate in a documentary film about this incident.
84. He never saw the gun camera film taken from his plane but was told that it showed him shooting at the bogie before it disappeared into the clouds. He was told later that he and Weaver expended 130 rounds of 20mm and 330 rounds of .50 cal. He thinks he had about 200 gal of fuel remaining.
85. He felt that Weaver should have joined up with him on the way back to support him if he developed any more engine problems.
86. He thought the mission may have been unauthorized but found out later that Col MacDonald did allow his Squadron Commanders the authority to launch missions at their desecration. So the mission was authorized.
87. Thropp is planning to do a book/article about this subject matter but wants to see if my project can turn up any eyewitnesses to the dogfight or the destruction of the Japanese plane, or locate the Japanese pilot so he can talk to him.
88. I also sat down with him and drew out the vector diagrams showing the dogfight as he remembers it.
89. As unbelievable as it may seem he said I was the first experienced accident investigator/fighter pilot to ever sit down and discuss all these details about this mishap with him.
90. I told him that if the Japanese pilot is still alive I will arrange for them to meet. I also invited him to visit me and my wife in the Philippines and we will escort him around Clark, Leyte, and Negros.
91. I did not meet his current wife Shirley but I will meet her in December after I come back from Negros.
92. Thropp has a very good memory. His responses were candid and immediate.
93. He has not yet achieved closure on this incident that started more than 56 years ago.
94. Mr. Thropp has the highest regard for Maj. McGuire and would never want to bring discredit to his name.
95. Thropp is a life member of the VFW.
96. Thropp currently resides in Richmond, VA and works as a financial consultant.
Thropp survived this incident and two other crash landings. One was a P-38L-5 into a Filipino vegetable garden/rice paddy and the other a P-40E back in the US.
The crash site is situated on the western slope of a 20-foot deep ravine on the property known as Hacienda Progreso. Based on information Mason received in the personal interview with Doug Thropp and from a hand drawn map from Mizunori Fukuda, Mason was able to go the area and find four eyewitnesses who saw McGuire crash on 7 January 1945. Two of the eyewitnesses took Mason to the exact spot.
Using a sophisticated metal detector he was able to dig up about two dozen pieces of his aircraft. The pieces consist of a flight control cable pulley, an unfired 20mm bullet, unexpended .50 call brass shells and bullets, a firing pin and breech assembly for a .50 cal Browning M2 gun, numerous Philips flat head screws, and various nuts and bolts. These were all found at least 12" deep and are heavily corroded.
The two 80 year old witnesses also exactly described the condition of the body as it appeared at the US Army's autopsy examination in 1948. They also described the events of that day, the time of day, the type aircraft, and the disposition of some of his personal effects. Mason had no luck in locating Rittmayer's or Sugimoto's crash sites, but he will be returning.
Mason concluded his summary to Michael Claringbould of 24 January 2001,
“I have also decided to upgrade the memorial marker to that of a memorial shrine. The owner of the land has given his approval to build a 20 foot by 20 foot platform with a fence around it and to place an elaborate memorial marker on the site. Because of the slope the land is not useable for growing crops. The shrine will pay tribute to McGuire and the local Filipinos who died during the war. An interesting story to all this are the events of the day after he crashed. After the post crash fire subsided the Filipinos moved in and quickly removed his body, placed it in a wooden box, and took it to the Hacienda Progreso owners house. Here they secretly buried it. The Japanese showed up a few hours later and demanded to be shown the pilots body. The Filipinos at great risk to themselves refuse to show them where he had been buried. Their quick action kept McGuire from falling into the hands of the enemy. It's a small comfort to me to know that the enemy never got their hands on Tommy McGuire! The witnesses also ruled out the possibility that McGuire was shot down by Japanese anti-aircraft fire. They said the nearest Japanese Army forces were at least three miles away to the west and they did not hear any ground troops firing on McGuire before he crashed. That still leaves the stall theory (Weavers opinion), or the possibility he was hit by Sugimoto (Thropp’s opinion) as the leading causes of his crash.
Anyway I'm going to hang on to the parts for a while. I've been asked to lecture/give a briefing at the 475th FG reunion in April and at the Congressional Medal of Honor Society's Symposium to be televised by CSPAN in July in Wash DC. After that I'll turn the parts over to the USAF Museum for their McGuire display. I'll also be trying to attract the interest of some documentary producers in the hope that they would do a story on McGuire.
My many thanks goes out to you, Gary and Michael Terry, for helping me with this project. The information you all provided was invaluable. I'll continue to keep you advised on any future developments.
Warmest Regards,
Dave Mason”
Aerothentic in turn again thanks David Mason who will be formally submitting his find soon to the 475th Fighter Group Association, in addition to several prominent US Museums.
Here is the Link
McGuire story
