Learning to HO

[Spikes]

Bad SA.

(Image removed from quote.)

LOL where'd you find that?

[RumbleB]

The only problem I have atm is people who have faster planes (la7s ponies). they point their nose at you.. you roll out setup and get your nose on their six but they just jet off 2-3k.. then they turn around rinse and repeat.

I had a fight like this on my own with a guy in an la7.. he took 12 of these HO attempts with me rolling out of it.. unable to catch his plane then him coming back.. I tried everything.. I even slowed down so that hed come at my six and maybe slow so that i could hit the reveresal shot but.. he was going full throttle wepping it n just sped out of it then came back again.

eventually he ran out of fuel.

It was probably one of the most pathetic timewasting encoutners ive had.. in retrospect i shouldve just bailed and found someone willing to engage in a fun fight.

[mtnman]

You need to hand out an abject lesson, as opposed to allowing their behavior to net them a free kill.

The lesson learned is that they don't HO as well as the experienced stick who HO'd them better.  Killing the HO'er by HOing better doesn't teach them that HOing doesn't work.  It teaches them to try harder to perfect it.  If it works for the experienced player, it'll work for the inexperienced player if he works hard enough at it.

[mtnman]

1v1 I don't really care if my opponent tries the HO.  I expect it for every single player I come across, and take it into consideration.  I seldom even take a slight ping from it.  If I do get hit, I see it as my fault.  I "knew" he would try it, and I didn't take action to insure his attempt would fail.

The fact that he tries for it just makes my presumption on his intent "right", therefore my predictions for his action was correct, and the manuever I've already envisioned and begun is very likely to succeed.  I'm sure I have a better than 99% success rate against single cons who try the HO.

The HO's that annoy me are the multi v 1 scenarios.  I'm already fighting 1 or 2 or 3 guys, and another one feels like his best chance foe success is to shoot for my face.

If I feel any disappointment as a result of an HO attempt, it because I've instantly given up on the idea that my opponent has the required level of self-assurance required to put up a good fight.  If he thinks the 50/50 chances are "good enough", IMO he thinks he has less than a 50/50 chance if the fight gets more complex.  Why would he accept 50/50 odds if he thought he could improve those odds by manuevering?

[StokesAk]

No reason to HO, people who HO on the 1st merge have a tendancy to lose.

[BnZs]

The lesson learned is that they don't HO as well as the experienced stick who HO'd them better.  Killing the HO'er by HOing better doesn't teach them that HOing doesn't work.  It teaches them to try harder to perfect it.  If it works for the experienced player, it'll work for the inexperienced player if he works hard enough at it.

There is no such thing as a HO "working" for them unless you *allow* it to work by allowing them to escape unscathed. I wasn't saying don't dodge if the possibility is open, but if you find yourself on the deck, with little or no energy for avoidance maneuvers, and oh lookey, here is yet another bandit coming right at you, it is better to shoot back than be a free kill.

IMO, all this "The HO is dead-easy to counter-stuff" comes primarily from the fact that most blatant HO'ing comes from noobs who are relatively poor shots. A good enough marksman stands some chance of hitting you on the merge really no matter what you do, short of avoiding so early and so radically that you show him some angles to grab. The reason a vet and a good marksman generally does not HO you, (and generally makes it clear on the merge he is not looking to HO you with a slight flight-path displacement), isn't because he can't kill you on the HO pass if desired. It is because he has learned that if the opponent chooses to counter by HO'ing back, his own survival chances become paltry. Better to chance the fight than the certainty of M.A.D.

[1Boner]

LOL where'd you find that?

Break.com

They have some funny stuff.

Just found that picture today.

Was hoping to use it on the BBs, but I didn't think the opportunity would arise this quickly!!

 

[Sloehand]

Just for the fun of it, let's get back to the original question, which was, if you consider the "HO" a valid 'maneuver', then how do you perform it successfully?  Forget that long range probablitity says you will only be successful 50% of the time.

OK, first rule is, if at all possible, have an aircraft that has a significantly greater weight of firepower than your opponent.  The FM2 head on with a Niki or Tempest probably can't even be computed high enough to qualify as a poor probability of success. 

Second, balancing the first rule as best as possible, have a responsive aircraft, in particular, one that lends itself to superlative nose control.  The best one that comes to mind is the Spit.

Now, how do you perform the maneuver to best advantage.  Fly head on towards the bad guy, just before he fires induce a little angle off so that hopefully his first burst will miss, but you'll pass very close.  Then just before you pass, you snap your nose towards the bad guy then away again so as not to collide.  Remember to pull the trigger as you snap towards him.  You splat him right in the face.

The Spit is marvelous at this, even if it's weight of guns is a little light.  The Hispano 20mm's are effective if you hit.  Get good at this maneuver, and on an even basis, your success probablity will go up to about 51%.  Of course, you'll take a lot of deaths getting good at it. 

I'm not an advocate of just HO'ing everything in sight, but if you're out numbered in a turn fight, you often find youself face to face with a bandit re-entering the fight, and you have a good opportunity to reduce the enemy numbers by one with a quick HO.  This maneuver will do it... sometimes.

[BnZs]

The Spit is marvelous at this, even if it's weight of guns is a little light. 

Interestingly, according to the charts at DokGonzo's, 1 Hispano appears to be ~3 times as lethal as 1 .50. This is realistic, considering that WWII tests came to the same conclusion.

So 2 Hispanos=6 .50s in lethality. If you are in a SpitXVI/SpitXIV and thus have 2 .50s to go with your Hisapanos, that means the lethality is equivalent to that of a P-47 with the 8x.50 package.

I've never heard the Jug's firepower called "a little light" 

[JunkyII]

No reason to HO, people who HO on the 1st merge have a tendancy to lose.

People who HO on any merge tend to lose thats why they do it 

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Right, just another case in point of someone doing something poorly and running home cryin' to mommah. Don't like being shot in the face, turn your back to the enemy and try to have them over shoot.


No ones fault for you loosing but yourself.

[Masherbrum]

Bad SA.

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     Not a photoshopped picture either!   

[JunkyII]

Right, just another case in point of someone doing something poorly and running home cryin' to mommah. Don't like being shot in the face, turn your back to the enemy and try to have them over shoot.


No ones fault for you loosing but yourself.

Alot of good sticks are giving people their six in order to get into a good fight..........

[strong10]

If you're serious try learning in an IL-2.  Good 23mm gun package that is deadly and has range.  The IL-2 can take damage as well and keep flying.  On the other side, avoid HO'ing poor maneuvering big gun package planes who's best offense is the HO gun pass like 110 and IL-2 or anything with 30mm. 
   I dont like the HO gun pass and love running into a fight that we dont HO each other which is maybe +-25% of encounters.  The other guy is really exposing himself with flying directly in front of your guns and not breaking till wingtip to wingtip.  This shows some kinda mutual respect too minimize cheap shots.  Sometimes in a fight I do take minor HO deflection shots if the other guy didn't quite bring his turn around in time and same happens to me, this isnt really a true HO nose to nose but it may feel like it until you review the tape.   

[BaldEagl]

Dress like this and you're on your way: