Defining bad game-play

[moot]

That's funny. I like being a baby because it's my 15$ and you're just a "mediocre" newb for being so tolerant.

[JunkyII]

Fantastic topic Falcon, I’m going to try and voice my opinion here.

What’s a horde?

A flight with more A/C then necessary to overcome an objective.

Game play going down hill?

Well I would agree that the general arena game play has gone down hill, maps are two big since the MA was split, hence the war is hardly ever won anymore. That means the “main objective is null and void”.

I spend most of my time online in the DA now, duelling the most advanced stick that I can find. My best friend Bruv and I can spend up to two hours a session duelling each other.

Who here is QUALIFIED to say that it is going downhill??

Everyone who pays their £9.99 a month has the right to voice their opinion on game play.

What makes a quality player ?

Do you mean skill wise? If so then the people who get their name in lights on the front page do poses some skill, a lot of patients and free time. However they are far from the most skilled pilots on a 1v1 bases in game! TonyJoey exempt as the kids got skills to pay the bills.

Other then that, the people who win KoTH have a right to claim greatness or held with some regard by other players.

I have just as much admirations for the people who are willing to spend their time organising fun for other people. Fuzeman is a prime example, The AH2 trainers fall into this category also.

Negative, Limbo won it one month and he HOs....also ran when he had C2 and I was in Pony lower then him....some people just get lucky. Bad gameplay is sprouting from people who dont wish to learn more about ACM.

[Dawger]

First rule of AH, its your dime, its your time, there is no wrong plane. There is really only one wrong tactic, and thats to HO and go on the initial merge. (the only true HO IMO)
Everything else depends on situation and how you choose to play.

But if you decline a 1 on 1, even if your at a slight disadvantage, your not a good pilot.


If your really want to be a GOOD pilot, try flying with even a modicum of honor and integrety, and in other than the top 5 planes.

I'd agree with most everything Ghost said except for the points I quoted.

One of the major problems with Aces High is this silly "Cold Merge" concept. It is a training tool only or maybe some kinda of goofy dueling rule. Trying to make it some sort "right or wrong" issue is the root of much silliness on this board. I've been flying online for quite a long time and have seen every HO argument there possibly is.

 It boils down to one simple fact.

If you cannot avoid a front quarter high aspect guns pass there is a big hole in your skill set or mindset or both. It is exceedingly simple to avoid the "HO" attempt and turn it to an angles advantage. I would never consider teaching anyone to "cold merge". It only sets them up for failure. And the end result is lots of silliness on this board. Learn to avoid the front quarter aspect shots. Learn to turn them to your advantage. I used to invite students to grab a 190 and try to kill me using the "Head on". That usually got them interested in how I managed to avoid their shots and end up offensive.

Next item. Declining 1 v 1 = not a good pilot. I guess I suck because I decline 1 v 1 opportunities all the time. From advantage, neutral, or disadvantage. For many different reasons. A few examples. Hurricanes and Zeroes. I won't even bother. In my P38 it is not exceptionally hard to win the fight. In fact, the fight is so predictable, its rather dull. I don't have the inclination to engage in yet another boom and zoom on someone who thinks yanking on the pole is the only way to fight. Conversely, I'll blow 42,000 feet of altitude to kill a pony. I enjoy the heck out of killing ponies (If I can catch them). If I see a jet I'll point my six at him, proceed to the nearest base, land, logoff and go do something else. Jets are the ultimately in buzz killers in game for me. Mind numbingly dull to fight but they can hang around out of guns range forever if they have the merest amount of skill. People have different interests. And even though mine is getting into a good fight, i really have little interest in fighting certain aircraft in certain situations. It is just boring.

And last....honor and integrity. Beside the glaringly obvious fact that this is a game let us discuss definitions.

Honor is honesty to one's own beliefs. Notice....one's own beliefs not beliefs imposed on him by others. Cultures of Honor flourish where there is no rule of law. They have faded from much of the West. Totally misapplied here. I can be completely honorable within the framework of my squadron yet break many of the "laws" imposed by the gameplay police. Honor only applies to the belief system engaged. Honor in this game applies to each little "gang" not the entire community because there is no unified belief system in game.

Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. A man with integrity necessarily is honorable within the context of his belief system.

If I am a member of a criminal gang that has set forth a system of beliefs, no matter how vile it may seem to the outside world, and I hold true to that system of beliefs I have integrity within that group and consequently I have honor. To an outsider I may seem the be the complete opposite but Honor and integrity do not apply outside of my particular belief system. And this is why we have the Rule of Law and not the Rule of Honor.

[Dadsguns]

Only a dedicated large squad of like-minded whordlings sitting in the tower, dutifully watching country-dar, could have prevented said onslaught. Coordinated response in the space of 2-3 minutes from various chess-piece members simply isn't likely.

Wrong. Maybe on your side or perspective, I can assure you.  
Just the other day a player on the Bish side alerted on country that a V base was being attacked by an NOE of umteen B-25's,  I was landing and went to help only to find that this person and I were the only two to show up before the hangers were taken down, I killed 10 of them and the troops that were there to save the base.  Anyone willing to defend will, those that choose not to will blame someone else for their lack of effort to save a base.  

Hordes - To me, a horde is overwhelming force. In a war, having 4 to 1 number superiority is a good thing, but not in a combat game that is NOT life or death, but entertainment. Honestly, is it really that much fun taking 20 guys to hit a VB?

Can this definition apply to wingman also?   You refer to 20 hitting a VB, what if its furball where its 10-3?  Is it still a horde?
More times than not, many will "hide" in this type of horde this is what some peoples perspective is on fighter hordes and how they "run" from a fight, afraid to mix it up, etc.

But if you decline a 1 on 1, even if your at a slight disadvantage, your not a good pilot.
If you only land kills when flying with 3 or more other pilots, your missing out on what you could be.
If you whine every time you die, look in the mirror. If you died YOU made a mistake, someplace. Accept it.
Learn from it, and move on.
If your pm'ing people who just killed you and asking anything other than "how did you do that, or what mistake did I make. Well chances are your part of the problem.

I cant agree with you more Ghosth. 

IMO, many that come here to complain about the flavor of the week are unknowingly part of the problem in some shape or form.  Throwing rocks from a glass house so to speak. 

This one is so easy.  A "quality" player is one who plays the game the same way you do, who is just as upset and supportive when the other guys doesn't fight or do things the way you think they should.  The "quality" player agrees with you that your way is the RIGHT WAY to play, and therefore, the ONLY WAY to play.  Everyone else is "mediocre", a newb and is just trashing your personal enjoyment of the game out of shear spite.  Dam the arrogance of the mediocrates!

Get some tolerance and quit being such babies.

 


Good discussion and inputs.

[The Fugitive]

I'd agree with most everything Ghost said except for the points I quoted.

One of the major problems with Aces High is this silly "Cold Merge" concept. It is a training tool only or maybe some kinda of goofy dueling rule. Trying to make it some sort "right or wrong" issue is the root of much silliness on this board. I've been flying online for quite a long time and have seen every HO argument there possibly is.

 It boils down to one simple fact.

If you cannot avoid a front quarter high aspect guns pass there is a big hole in your skill set or mindset or both. It is exceedingly simple to avoid the "HO" attempt and turn it to an angles advantage. I would never consider teaching anyone to "cold merge". It only sets them up for failure. And the end result is lots of silliness on this board. Learn to avoid the front quarter aspect shots. Learn to turn them to your advantage. I used to invite students to grab a 190 and try to kill me using the "Head on". That usually got them interested in how I managed to avoid their shots and end up offensive.

Next item. Declining 1 v 1 = not a good pilot. I guess I suck because I decline 1 v 1 opportunities all the time. From advantage, neutral, or disadvantage. For many different reasons. A few examples. Hurricanes and Zeroes. I won't even bother. In my P38 it is not exceptionally hard to win the fight. In fact, the fight is so predictable, its rather dull. I don't have the inclination to engage in yet another boom and zoom on someone who thinks yanking on the pole is the only way to fight. Conversely, I'll blow 42,000 feet of altitude to kill a pony. I enjoy the heck out of killing ponies (If I can catch them). If I see a jet I'll point my six at him, proceed to the nearest base, land, logoff and go do something else. Jets are the ultimately in buzz killers in game for me. Mind numbingly dull to fight but they can hang around out of guns range forever if they have the merest amount of skill. People have different interests. And even though mine is getting into a good fight, i really have little interest in fighting certain aircraft in certain situations. It is just boring.

And last....honor and integrity. Beside the glaringly obvious fact that this is a game let us discuss definitions.

Honor is honesty to one's own beliefs. Notice....one's own beliefs not beliefs imposed on him by others. Cultures of Honor flourish where there is no rule of law. They have faded from much of the West. Totally misapplied here. I can be completely honorable within the framework of my squadron yet break many of the "laws" imposed by the gameplay police. Honor only applies to the belief system engaged. Honor in this game applies to each little "gang" not the entire community because there is no unified belief system in game.

Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. A man with integrity necessarily is honorable within the context of his belief system.

If I am a member of a criminal gang that has set forth a system of beliefs, no matter how vile it may seem to the outside world, and I hold true to that system of beliefs I have integrity within that group and consequently I have honor. To an outsider I may seem the be the complete opposite but Honor and integrity do not apply outside of my particular belief system. And this is why we have the Rule of Law and not the Rule of Honor.

Well if that doesn't come of sounding a bit like a "Holy than thou" attitude I don't what does!

Dawger, you come in here and push your attitude, and agenda everytime you post something. You came from WB..or where ever.. and yes you were the best trainer/fighter/team player/whatever there, but your in our world now. What applied in your world doesn't necessarily apply in ours. Here we try to train the a HO is a bad thing, yes many people still take it, but most feels that it is a cheap shot and will call you out on it.

I don't know about from where you come from, but here the idea is to fight, or have combat. Turning down a 1 vs 1 means you should go fly Flightsim X because you don't want to fight, so go fly a flight sim where there is no fighting.

Honor is dictated by the community. In the US we have a certain honor, if your a gang banger, you may have a certain honor, but to the rest of society/community your unlawful scum that needs to be locked up. Same goes for the game. you may be honorable with in your squad, but the rest of the game community decide whether that is acceptable.

You came from a different neighborhood, ours works just a bit different.  It doesn't matter how long you have been in flight sim communities, what matters is how long you have been in THIS flight sim community. Anything you earned in other sims is thrown out the window when you switched, just like everyone else. Here you have to start all over, like everyone else. Nobody gets respect just because.... they have to earn it just like everyone else.

[crazyivan]

That's funny. I like being a baby because it's my 15$ and you're just a "mediocre" newb for being so tolerant.

your  152 is bad game play, go shoot soemone else down.

[FiLtH]

        Here's the game in a nutshell.

       You start out knowing next to nothing, and invest months to years learning how to play. You will meet good opponents and lousy ones, and even more in between. You'll be in a 51 and frustrated why someone takes a hurri2c and complain that he only HOs you. You'll be in a Hurri2c and complain the 51 only wants to run. You'll be in abomber and get yelled at for dropping hangars, and a little while later you'll be yelling at the fighters that while they were furballing the goon died, and that you should have taken down the hangars.

      You will eventually get pretty good at the game and any fight you lose its not because the other guy outflew you or you made a mistake, its because the guy who shot you did something lame.

      You'll get on 200 to call out another person with the sole intent to make him look small, when in fact doing so reflects back on the original typist.

      Your passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.

      Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.

[Sloehand]

That's funny. I like being a baby because it's my 15$ and you're just a "mediocre" newb for being so tolerant.

Dam right and proud of it.  My $15 (dollar sign goes on the left, you see) is better than your "15$" because... well, because it's MY $15.  Oh, and by the way, you are very successful at being a baby, just in case you weren't sure.   

[Sloehand]

       Here's the game in a nutshell.

       You start out knowing next to nothing, and invest months to years learning how to play. You will meet good opponents and lousy ones, and even more in between. You'll be in a 51 and frustrated why someone takes a hurri2c and complain that he only HOs you. You'll be in a Hurri2c and complain the 51 only wants to run. You'll be in abomber and get yelled at for dropping hangars, and a little while later you'll be yelling at the fighters that while they were furballing the goon died, and that you should have taken down the hangars.

      You will eventually get pretty good at the game and any fight you lose its not because the other guy outflew you or you made a mistake, its because the guy who shot you did something lame.

      You'll get on 200 to call out another person with the sole intent to make him look small, when in fact doing so reflects back on the original typist.

      Your passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.

      Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.

In a nutshell.   

While I've come to respect most of the 'hot' sticks in the MA simply for their skill, I've found through the forum that too many have an 'elitest' attitude about the game (I didn't say 'all' or 'most').  It's their game cause they were either here first and/or they are the best at what they like to do, furballing.  They think they are being 'true' to the game and it's original vision or something and everyone else who doesn't play their way isn't. 

What they are, more or less, is arrogant, egotistical and as I've said before, intollerant.  Wonderful qualities in a person.  I have no problem with them not liking certain gameplay or thinking their way is better, but their 'supreme' attitude about it is wearing thin.  Which is probably the intention of many of them.  It's the other half of the game some of them enjoy.  Pissing people off for the fun of it, because they can without punishment.  I can hear them chuckling behind their skirts now.  Or is that clucking?

[Chalenge]

For every screenshot you can show of a bish mission into a field like that I can show you twice as many of both rook and knight missions. I can always tell when its happening from the 'other' LW arena because bish will have an eny and cannot change arenas because of the cap.

[Anaxogoras]

The Jokers gave a nice example of a horde yesterday with their attack on A44 in orange.  They attacked with dozens and dozens of P-51s and 4-engined bombers, closed the field entirely, did multiple lemming-goon runs on the town, and still failed to take the field.

Ultimately, they attacked with a far greater force than necessary, but failed to take the base because of a lack of tactical coordination.  It was pretty funny to see such a huge force not succeed at their objective.

[Yeager]

       Here's the game in a nutshell.

      passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.

      Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.

No one has summed it up better FiLtH. 

[AKKaz]

Just as a curiousity.......... under the many examples given so far....

Wouldn't that also mean that 50 defenders against 8 attackers be considered hording by the defenders?

The shame of it all

[VonMessa]

The Jokers gave a nice example of a horde yesterday with their attack on A44 in orange.  They attacked with dozens and dozens of P-51s and 4-engined bombers, closed the field entirely, did multiple lemming-goon runs on the town, and still failed to take the field.

Ultimately, they attacked with a far greater force than necessary, but failed to take the base because of a lack of tactical coordination.  It was pretty funny to see such a huge force not succeed at their objective.

And I missed it........ 

[thndregg]

What’s a horde?

A flight with more A/C then necessary to overcome an objective.

Define what is "necessary". Sounds like a "perfect world" term.