Defining bad game-play

[Masherbrum]

Close Lynx...but, the real question should be "What were the other 19 guys thinking?". There was a time when many such missions would simply be ignored as having an entertainment/boredom ratio that was simply too high.

I'll never forget back in about 2003, when I started out with Nazgul, there was an armchair general planning a mission.   Mind you this mission was out to get A26 from the Bish and had no importance in their "quest for a reset".   Also, it had over 60 participants.   The 81st wasn't happy about what I did and BFD even remembered that night at the 2003 Indy Con.   

Meanwhile, to win the reset, I hired Mutley, Goth, Boxboy28 and AX to hit the Center island.   We took all bases ourselves and they never even got close to taking A26.

Some folks on here over the years have all of a sudden "become the best mission planners", but a lot of them lack a simple grasp of frontal tactics.   "Let's swarm a base, take it, but quickly lose it, because we left supplies and the VH up at a base to it's rear."   

But, if some sleep better thinking they're the shizzle, I guess. 

[Dadsguns]

Then may I suggest that before you use "someone else" as an example, you should start on YOUR side that your on which ever that may be.  

When have you ever put out on 200 the location of a hidden cv?   Try PM me that next time and I will take your word on that one.

You were not there for the previous umteen hours of "fighting" so you dont have a leg to stand on, you just saw the END of the fight and you pissed all over yourself trying to place blame using your "example" on Falcon, when in fact the BISH worked together to get back the bases that was taken by YOUR side in a lame way.....   I think Falcon, the Bish, everyone involved worked together to make it right for everyone.  Hero's of the cartoon world.   IMO    

[thndregg]

It really irks me when folk are hard of understanding.  STAT-IST-ICS.   Your stats scream a thousand words.  I ALSO don't care about your SCORE but the STATS say it all.  Frankly they typified the sum of you and your ilk.

Your not following this are you.  I can see it now.  Sat there going ..."whats score got to do with it".  Pretty much the same way that you don't understand the potential erosion to game play.  I'll tell you....score has nothing to do with it even if u played 3 hours or 3000 hours.  The stats say everything though.

Hit percentage.... average to crap.  Kills to death ....crap.  More sorties to kills and so and so on.  Dude...really! Its not a wonder you seek Solis in a 20+ man mission.  You can't survive or get things done without them. 

This TYPIFIES what I was saying in my first post here.   "missed"...the Air con, the hanger, the Gv, the ack but most of all missed the bleedin plot...jesus H 

B.S. it does. I do not have time to treat Aces High like a paying career. When it really gets down to it, this is the most trivial thing to devote hours upon hours to. Silly wabbit.
Meanwhile, Boxboy's quote in my sig is where I stand.

[Stang]

It's not even worth posting anymore.

2% of you get it, the rest are just idiots.  You wouldn't even get it, if I may quote someone here, if you got run over by a bus with it.

Kinda sounds like the breakdown of intelligence in the real world, shocking...

Carry on.

[WMLute]

It's not even worth posting anymore.

2% of you get it, the rest are just idiots.  You wouldn't even get it, if I may quote someone here, if you got run over by a bus with it.

Kinda sounds like the breakdown of intelligence in the real world, shocking...

Carry on.

Watch the movie "Idiocracy" and tell me if you see any parallels to in here.

[A8TOOL]

Defining bad game-play http://bbs.hitechcreations.comREMOVED/smf/index.php/topic,.html       This is one example of MANY 

IMO, vet sim pilots should be here to take new pilots under their wing, help when they can and set examples throughout the arenas they fly in condemning (to a certain extent) bad behavior.

On another note: I Hate seeing 3-4 guys on one or 5 guys following one damaged plane thats already being chased by 2-3 noobs or vets. I also hate how 10 guys at a base can all get stuck flying at low alt over it because of one enemy con above it.  Instead of being scared to leave your ack you should proceed ahead to meet the rest of the incoming enemy cons because once they get there your all gonna be dead.


I've got a good score and i don't work hard at it all all. I hardly make it home and normally can be found on CH trying to point out these mistakes while trying to rally players toward a common goal.

 Meet the enemy and kill them. Try to keep your alt, ask someone for help if needed, give check 6's and don't run to the deck and away from help! Most of all, KEEP ADVANCING TOWARD THEIR BASE. Why give them the upper hand by waiting for them to come to you?


All in all we have a lot of Very good players here. I don't expect everyone to fly the same but do encourage working as a team to accomplish certain objectives.


 


Edited to remove a link I put in here to bash a vet player for being a dweeb on film. Crazyivan  helped me realize I was being a dweeb myself by posting it in that way.

[Ack-Ack]

Watch the movie "Idiocracy" and tell me if you see any parallels to in here.

When I watched the movie, the first thing that ran through my mind was "Gee, whoever wrote this must play AH".


ack-ack

[Dadsguns]

HT, Please create a map that has 1 Base each at an alt of 15k 1 sector apart so the ones interested can bang away at each other to their hearts content, this will eliminate the base capture complaints two fold, and satisfy the needs of the wanna be aces in this game.  The MA has way to many facets of game style and play that some cannot or will not fathom nor accept.  Problem solved.   

[The Fugitive]

Then may I suggest that before you use "someone else" as an example, you should start on YOUR side that your on which ever that may be.  

When have you ever put out on 200 the location of a hidden cv?   Try PM me that next time and I will take your word on that one.

I have reported hidden CVs many times, I'm sorry about you NOT being logged on at the time, but the fact remains that I have.

You were not there for the previous umteen hours of "fighting" so you dont have a leg to stand on, you just saw the END of the fight and you pissed all over yourself trying to place blame using your "example" on Falcon, when in fact the BISH worked together to get back the bases that was taken by YOUR side in a lame way.....   I think Falcon, the Bish, everyone involved worked together to make it right for everyone.  Hero's of the cartoon world.   IMO    

ahhh to make it right I see... were the taxes due and the bish short on "land" so they couldn't collect as much? If you loose to many base they take away your women? I couldn't care lees if the fight is for A9, or A51 on the coast. The point is there was a fight, and those guy went out of their way to kill it. Did they attack 51 after taking the island to continue the fight, nope they had their land back, no need. 

 

HT, Please create a map that has 1 Base each at an alt of 15k 1 sector apart so the ones interested can bang away at each other to their hearts content, this will eliminate the base capture complaints two fold, and satisfy the needs of the wanna be aces in this game.  The MA has way to many facets of game style and play that some cannot or will not fathom nor accept.  Problem solved.   

My guess is this conversation is just way to far over your head Dadsguns, either that or you haven't read along, and just jumped in here to spout off. I have mentioned a number of types of missions and plans that would be great game play. I don't think any one has said to get rid of missions or captures, its how people are going about those missions and captures that are lame. FALCON admitted "he" was tired of the furball, and "he" decided to get everyone together to end it once and for all. 8 hours, 5 hours, it doesn't matter, it was a battle where people were having fun. IF they were NOT having fun don't you think they would have left....oh like maybe when the "horde" shows up and most of the defenders leave.

[Dawger]

Oh...and if you think real pilots blew right in front of comrades to shoot a bandit that was already being shot up/at, without repercussions, think again. In R/L, the safety issues alone of two friendlies trying to shoot the same bandit simultaneously are daunting.

Two friendlies attacking from the same direction is a rookie level mistake. The entire purpose of 2 versus 1 tactics is to create a more complex problem for the bandit, not simplify it by piling everybody in trail on the bandit.

Double attack, done right, will have the two friendlies operating 90 degrees off plane from each other. When the engaged fighter calls off, the free fighter will engage from a direction that is out of plane with the fight and unseen by the bandit if he is positioning correctly.

Loose Deuce resembles this "kill stealing" a little better. The entire purpose of Loose Deuce tactics is to get the bandit predictable by applying offensive pressure but not so much pressure that the bandit goes panic defensive. This allows a competent loose deuce wing man to set up a high blind side attack. In a classic Heart Attack merge against a Loose Deuce pair the bandit will come under guns from his belly side at about 180 degrees into his first post merge break. The bandit will be defending against the engaged fighter pressuring from the control zone but not pushing hard for a shot and the free fighter will maneuver to shoot while the bandit is thus distracted.

I fly Loose Deuce with my squaddies but the really great thing about Loose Deuce is your wing man doesn't even have to know he is flying Loose Deuce for it to be effective. Its quite effective in a flat fight on the deck that is anchored. It is a simple matter of positioning over the bandit post and swooping in for a hi-lo belly side attack and the bandit is concentrating on the bandit in his control zone. Then you can swoop away. With proper planning you are on a good heading and wont need to waste energy turning to get a good heading for building back the energy bank. A quick scan and its easy to pitch back in or egress as necessary.

[Dadsguns]

ahhh to make it right I see... were the taxes due and the bish short on "land" so they couldn't collect as much? If you loose to many base they take away your women? I couldn't care lees if the fight is for A9, or A51 on the coast. The point is there was a fight, and those guy went out of their way to kill it. Did they attack 51 after taking the island to continue the fight, nope they had their land back, no need. 

No nothing due, just ours to get back.  What you fail to see is that it was a fight for over 8+ hours, 8+ HOURS..... you showed up in the last 10 min when it was lost and it ruined YOUR fun.     I think it was fun for ALL during those 8+ hours, you just missed it.  The fight shifted to the southern bases where MORE fun was had.  So are you crying over spilled milk?  we took back what was ours to begin with, and the fight moved south?  

 
My guess is this conversation is just way to far over your head Dadsguns, either that or you haven't read along, and just jumped in here to spout off. I have mentioned a number of types of missions and plans that would be great game play. I don't think any one has said to get rid of missions or captures, its how people are going about those missions and captures that are lame. FALCON admitted "he" was tired of the furball, and "he" decided to get everyone together to end it once and for all. 8 hours, 5 hours, it doesn't matter, it was a battle where people were having fun. IF they were NOT having fun don't you think they would have left....oh like maybe when the "horde" shows up and most of the defenders leave.

If it makes you feel any better, I admit myself was on earlier that morning hence 8+ hours of fighting, I can assure you that I had my fill and so did many others by that point.  
Would it make you feel better if you rooks will let us push into your side taking some bases, and at that point you guys dont push back, but just furball?  Dont attempt to take any bases back, just up for fun?  Would you think that Rooks would do that....  think about it...  

[BnZs]

Pssst....75% of the guys on this forum own a copy of Shaw. Nice attempt at obfuscation though!

And two guys winging together is not even what we are talking about, and you know it. We are talking about happening upon a fight, and taking advantage of the fact that someone else has spent time and E putting a bandit in a vulnerable position, where he is an easy pick, and padding your score with his work. Or just whaling a way at a falling plane.

Sorry, you defended the single lamest AHII behavior repeatedly and specifically, you're just gonna have to live with it.

Two friendlies attacking from the same direction is a rookie level mistake. The entire purpose of 2 versus 1 tactics is to create a more complex problem for the bandit, not simplify it by piling everybody in trail on the bandit.

Double attack, done right, will have the two friendlies operating 90 degrees off plane from each other. When the engaged fighter calls off, the free fighter will engage from a direction that is out of plane with the fight and unseen by the bandit if he is positioning correctly.

Loose Deuce resembles this "kill stealing" a little better. The entire purpose of Loose Deuce tactics is to get the bandit predictable by applying offensive pressure but not so much pressure that the bandit goes panic defensive. This allows a competent loose deuce wing man to set up a high blind side attack. In a classic Heart Attack merge against a Loose Deuce pair the bandit will come under guns from his belly side at about 180 degrees into his first post merge break. The bandit will be defending against the engaged fighter pressuring from the control zone but not pushing hard for a shot and the free fighter will maneuver to shoot while the bandit is thus distracted.

I fly Loose Deuce with my squaddies but the really great thing about Loose Deuce is your wing man doesn't even have to know he is flying Loose Deuce for it to be effective. Its quite effective in a flat fight on the deck that is anchored. It is a simple matter of positioning over the bandit post and swooping in for a hi-lo belly side attack and the bandit is concentrating on the bandit in his control zone. Then you can swoop away. With proper planning you are on a good heading and wont need to waste energy turning to get a good heading for building back the energy bank. A quick scan and its easy to pitch back in or egress as necessary.

[oTRALFZo]

 we took back what was ours to begin with  

Oh dear
 

[WMLute]

HT, Please create a map that has 1 Base each at an alt of 15k 1 sector apart so the ones interested can bang away at each other to their hearts content, this will eliminate the base capture complaints two fold, and satisfy the needs of the wanna be aces in this game.  The MA has way to many facets of game style and play that some cannot or will not fathom nor accept.  Problem solved.   

Says the guy who can't even fathom where someone like Stang is coming from.  He's been where you are at (many moons ago) but you have yet to come even close to where is skillwise.  You can't pass any sort of judgment on him because you are unable to even understand his perspective.  And unless you make some huge leap in skill over the next few years you might never.  He can see where you are comging from, heck, any noob with a year or two under their belt can see that.  Maybe in a few years, if you practice diligently, you WILL see where he is coming from and fully understand what Stang is saying.  Until you reach that point I would humbly suggest less typey typey, more practicey practicey.  Of course you can always stay at the lower echelons of skill and be perfectly happy there.  I'm ok w/ it if you are.

Something said earlier in this thread got me thinking.

The reason many of the missions discussed here are lame is because the people who run them are lacking skill.  Most can't fight at all, or are at best "ok".  I know beyond all shadow of a doubt you can't fight worth a hoot dads.  I also know falcon23 isn't much to speak of as a  fighter either.  Being only mediocre or even "poor" fighters, y'all lack the perspective of how accomplish goals based on skill.  You and yours don't capture the number of bases you do because you are particularly "good" at it (read: skilled).  You capture them using raw numbers alone because you lack the ability to do anything else but (read: unskilled).  A base take where I might need 10-12 pilots you need twice that to get the same results.

Until you and yours log the hours/days/months/years it takes to reach that level of skill and attain the perspective you gain at said level, you will always "think" what you are doing is "skillfull" or "good", but the reality of the situation is usually just the opposite.

Might I add by teaching other players, mostly noobs, to do as y'all do, you are dragging down the gameplay as opposed to bettering it.  With your way of doing things you end up with huge masses of players that are unable to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.  Do tell how your methods improve the gameplay.  Seems to me all it does is promote skilless noobs to stay skilless noobs.

[Dadsguns]

Says the guy who can't even fathom where someone like Stang is coming from.  He's been where you are at (many moons ago) but you have yet to come even close to where is skillwise.  You can't pass any sort of judgment on him because you are unable to even understand his perspective.  And unless you make some huge leap in skill over the next few years you might never.  He can see where you are comging from, heck, any noob with a year or two under their belt can see that.  Maybe in a few years, if you practice diligently, you WILL see where he is coming from and fully understand what Stang is saying.  Until you reach that point I would humbly suggest less typey typey, more practicey practicey.  Of course you can always stay at the lower echelons of skill and be perfectly happy there.  I'm ok w/ it if you are.

Something said earlier in this thread got me thinking.

The reason many of the missions discussed here are lame is because the people who run them are lacking skill.  Most can't fight at all, or are at best "ok".  I know beyond all shadow of a doubt you can't fight worth a hoot dads.  I also know falcon23 isn't much to speak of as a  fighter either.  Being only mediocre or even "poor" fighters, y'all lack the perspective of how accomplish goals based on skill.  You and yours don't capture the number of bases you do because you are particularly "good" at it (read: skilled).  You capture them using raw numbers alone because you lack the ability to do anything else but (read: unskilled).  A base take where I might need 10-12 pilots you need twice that to get the same results.

Until you and yours log the hours/days/months/years it takes to reach that level of skill and attain the perspective you gain at said level, you will always "think" what you are doing is "skillfull" or "good", but the reality of the situation is usually just the opposite.

Might I add by teaching other players, mostly noobs, to do as y'all do, you are dragging down the gameplay as opposed to bettering it.  With your way of doing things you end up with huge masses of players that are unable to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.  Do tell how your methods improve the gameplay.  Seems to me all it does is promote skilless noobs to stay skilless noobs.

 

For the record, Where did I pass any judgement on him?  But since you brought it up.

Stang?  Like I am supposed to know who he is?   Is he a great one too like yourself?   

I rarely if at all see some of you in this game much less have even fought you I think?   

Does that mean people like me cant beat you at all because we dont have any skill? 

The funny thing is, YOU cant beat what your up against without getting down and dirty, like I said before, many, probably including you and the great one stang, will only fight when the advantage is yours. This may be why for as long as I have played I cant say that your a regular.  Your a rarity.  Am I wrong?  Doubt it.

Now, there are some that you see regularly on, and I know they put up one heck of a fight, I just cant say that about the rest.

Oh by the way, we get it.  Its everyones fault on the Bish, they have the most dweebs, newbs, skilless players around, and they land grab, and dont play fair, and do NOE's and everything else you dont agree with, and we are so far behind some of you uber sticks in skill that we dont know our arse from a hole in the ground,,,, yeah we get it.....