A Thought about the Scoring System

[Chalenge]

My opinion is that the scoring system is geared towards the "milk runners", "cherry pickers", and "spawn campers".  If someone can rank THAT high from only have just a dozen or so fighter sorties... something is wrong.  Likewise, for someone to rank as high as they do from LESS than a dozen sorties but yet have a high bombing percentage... something is wrong.  Like I said, they are my opinions but there should be a much higher emphesis on total damage delivered for bombers instead of death per sortie and bombing %.  Also, there should be more emphesis placed on total number of kills in a fighter mode rather then how few of sorties, with X number of kills, and with Y number of deaths.  Ditto for GV scoring.  I'm not asking for or suggesting a total revamp of the system, but rather an adjustment.  An adjustment.  Simply swing slightly the balance weight away from the percentage points and towards the total damage deleivered for bombers (still have to be accurate), and towards total kills in fighters.   

I believe you are very much wrong but lets define a few terms here.

'Milk Runners' are most commonly defined as people that hit undefended factories. While this may in some part be true it is also possible to ALWAYS defend a factory. Laziness causes people not to do so because climbing all that way to get one kill and die doesnt sound like fun. Yet every time I fly to the city at 27k I get intercepted so it seems to me they ARE defended. Milk running a factory that is enemy but within friendly lines is reward for doing a good job I guess but I seldom get to do that because of the guys that do the same thing with any plane they can find and GVs too. So from my experience 'milk runners' are not the guys at high alt but the noobs at 1k attacking with a P47. Bear in mind the defense of the 'zone field' was poor and brought about the 'milk running.'

'Cherry picker' is defined as someone that kills a con that is busy with someone else. That definition removes any possibility that two guys might be flying together as wingmen. So 'cherry picking' as a term in a game about air combat is nonsense. Even if two guys are not working together its called 'ganging' and not 'picking' and its your choices that got you there. Complaining about a pilot flying to his aircrafts strengths makes you look dumb in comparison (for flying yours to his strengths) so stop saying 'picker.'

'Spawn Camping' is defined as setting up a good spot to shoot tanks as they spawn in to attack a field. This doesnt make much sense either because I dont even have to leave the field (in a lot of cases) and I can hit the spawn just fine. I currently lead the GV ranks in k/d and I have exactly 11 kills while camping and most of them I made on the way to the spawn which I would call DEFENSE. 'Spawn camping' is a whine about 'defenders' which is in contrast to the definition of 'milk runners.' Interesting isnt it?

Concerning fighter ranks there are not many categories to do well in.

Kills per death is a category few people can score well in either way. Even the highest ranked fighter guys dont usually have much of a k/d.
Kills per sortie is harder to maintain because there are so many people these days that are absolutely starved for a kill they will HO anything they see but if you have a good k/d and dont up to defend a lone con at a field this isnt hard to score in.

Kills per kour of flight is a pretty good way to measure ability I would say... especially if a person is outnumbered. Unfortunately it can be beat by vultching which... again... is a reward for doing a good job.

Kills hit percentage speaks for itself.

Kill points are divided I think about 200 per fighter and 1000 for bombers but I could be wrong (still researching that). Obviously the reward would be by fighting something that can and does shoot back or the gravy train of goon killing.

Bombers also require that you fly a goon and get a few captures. If you die you have to fly more bomber sorties because there are guys that fly bombers ONLY and do it every day.

Attack is the same as Fighter mode except you have to shoot even better and live as well as do a lot of damage and bomb well.

Now if you stay out of groups (hordes) and attack cons that have you outnumbered OR you are able somehow to get a large number of kills while flying with a group AND you happen to land multiple kills AND shoot lots of bombers AND you dont miss... then it doesnt matter how many sorties you fly you will beat a guy that flies only a few sorties.

Otherwise you are whining about your flying style versus his because of the few categories you dont do well in.

Glad we got that all cleared up and Have a nice day!

[stroker71]

Why even really pay attention to the score.  Go out improve yourself and have fun.  Rank is there for those who need that type of ego boost.  I reserve Feb. as my score padding month.  This year overall I was 7th.....impressed yet.  Awhile back the best rank I got was 2nd in GV's....it's fun but don't dwell on it.  I do to much supply drops, porking, and such to have a good rank all the time.  Honestly it's to much work and takes the fun out of the game.

<S> DuHasst

[SmokinLoon]

I believe you are very much wrong but lets define a few terms here.

'Milk Runners' are most commonly defined as people that hit undefended factories. While this may in some part be true it is also possible to ALWAYS defend a factory. Laziness causes people not to do so because climbing all that way to get one kill and die doesnt sound like fun. Yet every time I fly to the city at 27k I get intercepted so it seems to me they ARE defended. Milk running a factory that is enemy but within friendly lines is reward for doing a good job I guess but I seldom get to do that because of the guys that do the same thing with any plane they can find and GVs too. So from my experience 'milk runners' are not the guys at high alt but the noobs at 1k attacking with a P47. Bear in mind the defense of the 'zone field' was poor and brought about the 'milk running.'

'Cherry picker' is defined as someone that kills a con that is busy with someone else. That definition removes any possibility that two guys might be flying together as wingmen. So 'cherry picking' as a term in a game about air combat is nonsense. Even if two guys are not working together its called 'ganging' and not 'picking' and its your choices that got you there. Complaining about a pilot flying to his aircrafts strengths makes you look dumb in comparison (for flying yours to his strengths) so stop saying 'picker.'

'Spawn Camping' is defined as setting up a good spot to shoot tanks as they spawn in to attack a field. This doesnt make much sense either because I dont even have to leave the field (in a lot of cases) and I can hit the spawn just fine. I currently lead the GV ranks in k/d and I have exactly 11 kills while camping and most of them I made on the way to the spawn which I would call DEFENSE. 'Spawn camping' is a whine about 'defenders' which is in contrast to the definition of 'milk runners.' Interesting isnt it?

Concerning fighter ranks there are not many categories to do well in.

Kills per death is a category few people can score well in either way. Even the highest ranked fighter guys dont usually have much of a k/d.
Kills per sortie is harder to maintain because there are so many people these days that are absolutely starved for a kill they will HO anything they see but if you have a good k/d and dont up to defend a lone con at a field this isnt hard to score in.

Kills per kour of flight is a pretty good way to measure ability I would say... especially if a person is outnumbered. Unfortunately it can be beat by vultching which... again... is a reward for doing a good job.

Kills hit percentage speaks for itself.

Kill points are divided I think about 200 per fighter and 1000 for bombers but I could be wrong (still researching that). Obviously the reward would be by fighting something that can and does shoot back or the gravy train of goon killing.

Bombers also require that you fly a goon and get a few captures. If you die you have to fly more bomber sorties because there are guys that fly bombers ONLY and do it every day.

Attack is the same as Fighter mode except you have to shoot even better and live as well as do a lot of damage and bomb well.

Now if you stay out of groups (hordes) and attack cons that have you outnumbered OR you are able somehow to get a large number of kills while flying with a group AND you happen to land multiple kills AND shoot lots of bombers AND you dont miss... then it doesnt matter how many sorties you fly you will beat a guy that flies only a few sorties.

Otherwise you are whining about your flying style versus his because of the few categories you dont do well in.

Glad we got that all cleared up and Have a nice day!

You just said a lot of nothing, and much of what you said is quite contrary to what is fact. 

The "attack mode" is quite a bit different that "fighter mode".  It is a MUCH broader category that fighter where air to air, air to gv, and bombs on target (bombing %) all come into play. 

The highest ranking fighter guys have a HUGE k/d ratio, but the thing is they do it with so few sorties/time in the air.  But once they gain the high k/d ratio, they strictly go "attack mode".

Both the bomber and GV scores are heavily reliant on a player getting at least 1 single base capture.  I alreadystated that.  The thing is, multiple base captures (2 and up) do not seem to impact the scores as much as the single (none to 1) capture.  My case for bomber scores is that they should be more weighted to damage delievered vs OBJ per bomb (bombing %).  There should be more of a "reward" for taking 3/1k bombs and taking out a hanger vs taking a single 1k bomb and wiping out a dozen buildings in a city.  Hence, my suggestion for sliding the bomber scoring system toward the damage delivered vs OBJ per bomb.

I've already said it once... let me say it again: my opinion is not based on "my style", but rather the lack of participation of a high ranking player or a glaring inconsistancy in how the game is scored compared to how the game is played.  I dont care about how "my style" is affected by the scoring system (btw... I dont have a "style").  When I see what appears to be a gaping hole in what one would think would be a systematic portion of the game... I put it on the table and state why I disagree, my solution, and move on (and make rebuttles such as this one).  Too often guys like me are called "whiners" because we're not zombies and simply "do as we're told and play the game as is".

[Chalenge]

Everything I said is fact. Read it again when your ears arent burning from being contradicted. Nearly everything you said in rebuttle is incorrect.

Fighter k/d can be kept high by vulching an ackless field. Thats what the guy you are looking at does. He is a gamer and he admits it. He will only do what he needs to do to score well. His overall fighter POINTS will be lower but by taking the lead in the other categories he out performs a lot of people.

Your opinion about bombing hangars giving more reward I have to disagree with. Although it does negatively impact attack score it makes more sense to use attack mode against hangars and actually engage (your choice of terms was 'participate') in the battle instead of sitting it out in the clouds. Yes its risky getting near all those flaks and you wont see the top guys doing it I guess. More damage is done at the city with one 2k bomb than at a hangar with a 4k bomb. Think about it. Using a bomber to knock down maybe four objects for the time required to climb to just above the ack even is ridiculous. The target should be more valuable given the time required and so it is if you go to a factory and destroy a lot of objects.

The thing is you dont really want to do what it takes to beat him or you would not be whining and yes you are whining. Your whine is made worse by your lack of understanding on how to score well but I dont blame you because playing for score is a pain in the neck. However it is your comment such as "the scoring is inconsistant, it is outdated, and it is ignored by the programmers/coders/HTC" that reduces your 'discussion' to the level of a whine because quite frankly you are very much mistaken in your use of negatives to turn your argument. The scoring is consistent and applied the same from one person to another. The date comment is not applicable nor is your claim that it is ignored as obviously Hitech has given it considerable thought and continues to do so.

Thus it can be seen that your comments are geared toward a pure whine in that you cannot influence the actions of another player outright. You are requesting a scoring change better suited to 'your version' which obviously makes it easier for everyone while instead it should not be easy at all and great success should result in individuals rising to the top. The great majority of players do not take death or score either one seriously and so they are well removed from the top. To that end scoring system works.

Have a nice day.

[hitech]

The highest ranking fighter guys have a HUGE k/d ratio, but the thing is they do it with so few sorties/time in the air.

I am completely missing the point of your post, having a good K/D will do no more for your fighter rank than having a good hit %. It will also tend to lower your K/T because of the time spent flying back and landing.

If you do not continue to fly your ranking in the Point category will lower you in the ranks significantly.

I think many people seem to forget that it is how you do as compared to everyone else and not the value alone.

Quite frankly Chalenge I am not completely sure what you are asking for, other than you seem to think that people who fly more should rank better, and they already do.

HiTech

[Chalenge]

Thats what I was saying exactly Hitech. 

EDIT: I meant that the way it works is the way it should work.

[SmokinLoon]

Everything I said is fact. Read it again when your ears arent burning from being contradicted. Nearly everything you said in rebuttle is incorrect.

Incorrect??? You are not even specifically pointing out what you think I am incorrect about.  You're trying to land punches on a guy who is 12 ft from you.  Most of what you said is lacking in general of any substance.  Case in point is your statement of "fighter mode" and "attack mode" are scored the same way.  They are not.

Fighter k/d can be kept high by vulching an ackless field. Thats what the guy you are looking at does. He is a gamer and he admits it. He will only do what he needs to do to score well. His overall fighter POINTS will be lower but by taking the lead in the other categories he out performs a lot of people.

Fighter k/d ratio can be kept high by doing far more than just vulching.  Again, I dont care how players get their score, that isnt the point.  My point on the fighter ranking is that those players that are ranking high have done maybe a dozen to 20 sorties, scored a 5+ k/d ratio, and are sitting on that score and are maintaining that higher rank.  I dont have the perfect solution, I never said I did.  However, I think more weight could be shifted towards "total kills" and maybe less of a penalty for being in the air, and away from the k/d ratio.     

Your opinion about bombing hangars giving more reward I have to disagree with. Although it does negatively impact attack score it makes more sense to use attack mode against hangars and actually engage (your choice of terms was 'participate') in the battle instead of sitting it out in the clouds. Yes its risky getting near all those flaks and you wont see the top guys doing it I guess. More damage is done at the city with one 2k bomb than at a hangar with a 4k bomb. Think about it. Using a bomber to knock down maybe four objects for the time required to climb to just above the ack even is ridiculous. The target should be more valuable given the time required and so it is if you go to a factory and destroy a lot of objects.

So, in other words you're trying to tell us that scoring the B17 raid on hangers in "attack mode" is the way to solve my "whine"?  Is that how you do it?    Also, you're wrong about the 2k v 4k comparison.  Dropping 2k of ord on a city delivers less dmg points than dropping 4k of ord on a hanger.  There are probably more OBJ destroyed at the city, but the dmg delivered is greater with the 4k bomb.  Again, I'm vouching for less bombing % importance and more total dmg deleivered importance, that is all. 

...Wait a second... are you whining about the alt needed to get above the ack level to bomb a target???    My answer to that is to stop and think of the destructive power of a set of bombers.  A single flight of B17's can take out 6 hangers.... not bad , really.  The B24 and Lanc can deliver even more dmg.  There is a reason I believe those 3 bombers should have a slight perk to them.       

The thing is you dont really want to do what it takes to beat him or you would not be whining and yes you are whining. Your whine is made worse by your lack of understanding on how to score well but I dont blame you because playing for score is a pain in the neck. However it is your comment such as "the scoring is inconsistant, it is outdated, and it is ignored by the programmers/coders/HTC" that reduces your 'discussion' to the level of a whine because quite frankly you are very much mistaken in your use of negatives to turn your argument. The scoring is consistent and applied the same from one person to another. The date comment is not applicable nor is your claim that it is ignored as obviously Hitech has given it considerable thought and continues to do so.

*sigh* ... I based by argument on an educated opinion: One person performs a few bombing runs with a high bombing percentage will trump those players who deliver mass amounts of damage is a very similar manner to the way it was actually done in WWII (carpet bombing or massed ord on a single confined area as in AH2 hangers).  My "negatives" are are based on what I've been told by those players who have been around awhile regarding the scoring (I've been here since Jan '08), my observations on how the scoring is inconsistent with how the bombers were used in WWII (the bomber score is penalized for carpet bombing, and an "Ace" fighter pilot received no more of the newspaper headlines if he did it 5 sortie's or 30 and in actuality the more kills they got the more publicity they received), and it seems as if HTC is hesitant to adjust even for testing purposes or even acknowledge that there may be better way to score to benefit historical gameplay.  And as far as "doing the things it takes to beat him"... I have not made one single "complaint" regarding getting vulched, picked, or otherwise shot down.  I do just fine in my P40E from 15k up.      

Thus it can be seen that your comments are geared toward a pure whine in that you cannot influence the actions of another player outright. You are requesting a scoring change better suited to 'your version' which obviously makes it easier for everyone while instead it should not be easy at all and great success should result in individuals rising to the top. The great majority of players do not take death or score either one seriously and so they are well removed from the top. To that end scoring system works.

Nah... like I said already, it isnt about "my style" of gameplay (which involves the P40E, Mossie, Boston III, and other lesser aircraft) and I'm not trying to change anyone's action.  The "scoring system works" by letting those of us who shy away from scoring be removed from the top???     And "my version" of the scoring would do nothing but puch the slider away from high percentages and more towards volume of performance.  The % would still be important, but not so dominating as it is now.  That entire last paragraph is quite contrary to what I have been suggesting and is otherwise baseless, which seems to be the norm for you.     

Have a nice day.

May I suggest you think out your replies a bit more thoroughly?  You have very little substance and do little to accurately portray your position and/or contradict someone else.      Now YOU have a nice day.

[Chalenge]

You are incorrect about attack to start off with and yes it is precisely like fighter mode when it comes to killing air cons. The problem comes about when you talk about ground cons. Attack also has a bomb category but if you drop bombs on ground vehicles then your hit percentage with bombs will not stay high. Just like in bombers you want your bombing percentage to remain as high as possible. Obviously you will not have to have the best percentage unless you want to win the attack rank overall. The gunnery in attack also score against ground objects but it will drop if you take snapshots at turning fighters (you will miss at least a percentage).

Bombing hangars in bombers is not going to give you a higher percentage of damage or objects destroyed. So you are wrong when you say dropping a 4k bomb on a hangar will do more damage then dropping a 2k bomb in the middle of the city buildings. I fly bombers only in attacking cities (not in attack mode) and I use the B24s with the 2k eggs. I have a squad mate that does the same thing with B24s but he only attacks hangars. My squaddie has 114 sorties in bombers and I have 58. I know that approximately 8 of my sorties are as a gunner for other squad mates which drops your damage per sortie (as does flying a goon). The same goes for my squaddie (about 8 sorties as a gunner). His total damage done is a little more than 2 million and mine is nearly 10 million. In one flight (3 sorties when you take drones) I can do one million damage points.

So what you really want is to make RANK apply more heavily to people that fly more often? Actual performance is being quantified now and not hours spent online. And NO I dont think that there is a better way to increase fighter rank outside of vulching. If you have the ack down and the hangars down and you vulch for maybe ten minutes and get five kills thats still 30 kills per hour but if you do that for only five minutes and get ten kills that 120 kills per hour and your kills per sortie will be high enough to rank you above nearly everyone. If you are lucky enough to catch bombers launching then all the better because you get higher points.

I have been researching this scoring stuff for the last two months and there are just a couple of things I dont understand about it but you havent even come to that point yet. I would love to spring a surprise on our top two guys but Im afraid scoring is getting boring now.

If you want more clues on how to score you will have to wait until the book comes out. 

[SmokinLoon]

You are incorrect about attack to start off with and yes it is precisely like fighter mode when it comes to killing air cons. The problem comes about when you talk about ground cons. Attack also has a bomb category but if you drop bombs on ground vehicles then your hit percentage with bombs will not stay high. Just like in bombers you want your bombing percentage to remain as high as possible. Obviously you will not have to have the best percentage unless you want to win the attack rank overall. The gunnery in attack also score against ground objects but it will drop if you take snapshots at turning fighters (you will miss at least a percentage).

I am fully aware of the different categories that contribute to the attack score.  Obviously, I dont have the equasion but a high ranking doesnt seem to gravitate towards one category within the attack mode.  Bombing % in attack mode seems to be a much smaller portion of the pie than in bomber mode (rightfully so, imo), also the air to ground kills seems to weigh heavily enough to off balance any non-uber high % bombing score. 
 
Bombing hangars in bombers is not going to give you a higher percentage of damage or objects destroyed. So you are wrong when you say dropping a 4k bomb on a hangar will do more damage then dropping a 2k bomb in the middle of the city buildings. I fly bombers only in attacking cities (not in attack mode) and I use the B24s with the 2k eggs. I have a squad mate that does the same thing with B24s but he only attacks hangars. My squaddie has 114 sorties in bombers and I have 58. I know that approximately 8 of my sorties are as a gunner for other squad mates which drops your damage per sortie (as does flying a goon). The same goes for my squaddie (about 8 sorties as a gunner). His total damage done is a little more than 2 million and mine is nearly 10 million. In one flight (3 sorties when you take drones) I can do one million damage points.

Ask yourself these two questions: How many dmg points does a 2k bomb deliver?  How many dmg points does a 4k bomb deliver?  Are you saying that a 4k bomb does LESS dmg than a 2k bomb?  You are confusing damage dealt to OBJ(s) vs dmg capability an a bomb.  Also, do you ***REALLY*** use the "attacl mode" when using the B24?   

So what you really want is to make RANK apply more heavily to people that fly more often? Actual performance is being quantified now and not hours spent online. And NO I dont think that there is a better way to increase fighter rank outside of vulching. If you have the ack down and the hangars down and you vulch for maybe ten minutes and get five kills thats still 30 kills per hour but if you do that for only five minutes and get ten kills that 120 kills per hour and your kills per sortie will be high enough to rank you above nearly everyone. If you are lucky enough to catch bombers launching then all the better because you get higher points.

I'll be he first to say that quality should trump quantity in AH2, however not to the extreme that it currently does.  I'm not suggesting drastic changes, I'm suggest a slight adjustment towards quantity for kills, and less of a "penelty" for time in the air (less is better obviously, but I suggest to make that a smaller factor).   

I have been researching this scoring stuff for the last two months and there are just a couple of things I dont understand about it but you havent even come to that point yet. I would love to spring a surprise on our top two guys but Im afraid scoring is getting boring now.

It seems you dont understand a lot of things.   

If you want more clues on how to score you will have to wait until the book comes out. 

[Chalenge]

I will take my level of understanding over yours any day.

[Taurus45]

I am completely missing the point of your post, having a good K/D will do no more for your fighter rank than having a good hit %. It will also tend to lower your K/T because of the time spent flying back and landing.

If you do not continue to fly your ranking in the Point category will lower you in the ranks significantly.

I think many people seem to forget that it is how you do as compared to everyone else and not the value alone.

Quite frankly Chalenge I am not completely sure what you are asking for, other than you seem to think that people who fly more should rank better, and they already do.

HiTech

With All Due Respect HiTech>>>>That was my original point in starting this thread>>>why do those who "fly" more have a better score? I prefer not to fly and dogfight, why should I be penalized for my choice of using a GV only?

                                                                                                                        Taurus45

[The Fugitive]

With All Due Respect HiTech>>>>That was my original point in starting this thread>>>why do those who "fly" more have a better score? I prefer not to fly and dogfight, why should I be penalized for my choice of using a GV only?

But your not being penalized. If you only GV, then you should only worry about your GV score. If your worried about being top 10 over ALL, then you have to worry about ALL aspects of the game.

[Taurus45]

But your not being penalized. If you only GV, then you should only worry about your GV score. If your worried about being top 10 over ALL, then you have to worry about ALL aspects of the game.

 ---ahh comes the DAWN to these wilted old eyes, for some reason I just didnt "get it" until you said it this way. Many Thanks to The Fugitive 

[StokesAk]

Those who "fly" more.

Might be that we get 600+ kills and it balaces out our K/D. All i have done is up in Fighter mode this tour and a little in attack and i have 600+ kills with a K/D of like 2.4. This could make a difference.