Author Topic: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre  (Read 1265 times)

Offline redman555

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2193
10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« on: April 18, 2009, 09:48:16 PM »
Well, i know im two days early, but might not be home monday so posting now, for those that don't know Monday is the 10th year anniversary of The Columbine High School massacre.  A day that two crazy kids attacked there school killing 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 23 others, before committing suicide.  Wanted to give a big  :salute to those that were lost that day


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbo0f9qvxg&feature=related


-BigBOBCH


~364th C-HAWKS FG~

Ingame: BigBOBCH

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11293
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 10:45:17 PM »
 A troublesome aniversary to be marked,  it has been 10 whole years since children killing each other with guns in school lost the ability to shock us.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline redman555

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2193
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 10:46:57 PM »
the sad part is, only 1 month till graduation when it happened, all they had 2 do is suck it up and deal with it


-BigBOBCH
~364th C-HAWKS FG~

Ingame: BigBOBCH

Offline Fulmar

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3936
      • Aces High Movie Database
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 11:00:31 PM »
wow 10 years already?
In game callsign: not currently flying
Flying off and on since Warbirds
Aces High Movies available at www.derstuhl.net/ahmd2 - no longer aceshighmovies.com - not updated either

Offline MstWntd

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 11:29:28 PM »
Seemed like just yesterday...kind of.

<S> to each and every soul that rests.

Offline FYB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1074
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 01:10:10 AM »
the sad part is, only 1 month till graduation when it happened, all they had 2 do is suck it up and deal with it


-BigBOBCH
Goes to show it only takes 1 A-Hole to cause two desperate lives to find no solution but killing and suicide.

-FYB
Most skill based sport? -
The sport of understanding women.

Offline oakranger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8379
      • http://www.slybirds.com/
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 01:58:21 AM »
well, let not attack them.  Granted it is sad that it happen, but there are some students that push them too.
Oaktree

56th Fighter group

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26824
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 02:13:33 AM »
well, let not attack them.  Granted it is sad that it happen, but there are some students that push them too.

Too bad their so called parents did not well parent. I will not stand up for weak minded individuals like these 2 murdering pieces of trash. I can say that their parents would not be here today had one of the innocent kids killed that day been mine. Yes, I can be pushed to kill too... but not by calling me names.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 04:20:49 AM »
well, let not attack them.  Granted it is sad that it happen, but there are some students that push them too.

Your kidding right?
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2009, 04:50:35 AM »
The way the schoolsystem forces incompatible kids together and provides means for group bullying is what causes these killings.

Imagine being forced to join a community of teenagers for years and years and get bullied or ridiculed every day - for no reason whatsoever except a group of tards picked a fight with you. Possibly for being smarter than they are, possibly for being fat whatever the reason. There's only so much a persons psyche can take untill it snaps. I used to be a victim of school bullying and I seriously had plans to kill a couple of the worst bullies.

The only thing that stoped me was knowing it would have ended my own future too. Fortunately I changed school to a better one which was a lifesaver. The old school was a complete nightmare - students had anarchy and teachers got beaten up or verbally abused every day. Not to mention lower grade 'rookies'.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009, 05:00:33 AM »
Quote
I seriously had plans to kill a couple of the worst bullies.

Well I hope you never skip your medication.

I got bullied too. I found a punch in the nose to be more then adequate. But in my day we didn't make exuses for every nutcase with a story and an exuse, and, we were taught nothing is more precious then life.

Almost all the students murdered didnt even know the attackers well and never bullied them in the first place. And still they found themselves on all fours begging for their lives as these maggots laughed at them and then pumped bullets into them.

But do go ahead and empower these animals by making exuses for them.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2542
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 05:40:17 AM »
10 years, man..

10th year anniversary of The Columbine High School massacre.


Two words that (in my opinion) should not go in the same sentence. :|
~383Rd RTC/CH BW/AG~
BaDfaRmA

My signature says "Our commitment to diplomacy will never inhibit our willingness to kick a$s."

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2009, 05:42:11 AM »
Mr. Dubois then demanded of me, "Define a 'juvenile delinquent.'"

"Uh, one of those kids--the ones who used to beat up people."

"Wrong."

"Huh? But the book said--"

"My apologies. Your textbook does so state. But calling a tail a leg does not make the name fit. 'Juvenile delinquent' is a contradiction in terms, one which gives a clue to their problem and their failure to solve it. Have you ever raised a puppy?"

"Yes, sir."

"Did you house break him?"

"Err...yes, sir. Eventually." It was my slowness in this that caused my mother to rule that dogs must stay out of the house.

"Ah, yes. When your puppy made a mistake, were you angry?"

"What? Why, he didn't know any better; he was just a puppy."

"What did you do?"

"Why, I scolded him and rubbed his nose in it and paddled him."

"Surely he could not understand your words?"

"No, but he could tell I was sore at him."

"But you just said you were not angry."

Mr. Dubois had an infuriating way of getting a person mixed up. "No, but I had to make him think I was. He had to learn, didn't he?"

"Conceded. But, having made it clear to him that you disapproved, how could you be so cruel as to spank him as well? You said the poor beastie didn't know that he was doing wrong. Yet you inflicted pain. Justify yourself! Or are you a sadist?"

I didn't know what a sadist was--but I know pups. "Mr. Dubois, you have to! You scold him so that he knows he's in trouble, you rub his nose in it so that he will know what trouble you mean, you paddle him so that he darn well won't do it again--and you have to do it right away! It doesn't do a bit of good to punish him later; you'll just confuse him. Even so, he won't learn from one lesson, so you watch and catch him again and paddle him still harder. Pretty soon he learns. But it's a waste of breath just to scold him." Then I added, "I guess you've never raised pups."

"Many. I'm raising a dachshund now--by your methods. Let's get back to those juvenile criminals. The most vicious of them averaged somewhat younger than you here in this class... and they often started their lawless careers much younger. Let us never forget that puppy. These children were often caught; police arrested batches every day. Were they scolded? Yes, often scathingly. Were their noses rubbed in it? Rarely. News organs and officials usually kept their names secret--in many places the law so required for criminals under eighteen. Were they spanked? Indeed not. Many had never been spanked even as small children; there was a widespread belief that spanking, or any punishment involving pain, did a child permanent psychic damage."

(I had reflected that my father must never had heard of that theory.)

"Corporal punishment in schools was forbidden by law," he had gone on. "Flogging was lawful as sentence of court only in one small province, Delaware, and there only for a few crimes and was rarely invoked; it was regarded as 'cruel and unusual punishment.'" Mr. Dubois had mused aloud, "I do not understand objections to 'cruel and unusual' punishment. While a judge should be benevolent in purpose, his awards should cause the criminal to suffer, else there is no punishment--and pain is the basic mechanism built into us by millions of years of evolution which safeguards us by warning when something threatens our survival. Why should society refuse to use such a highly perfected survival mechanism? However, that period was loaded with pre-scientific pseudo-psychological nonsense."

"As for 'unusual,' punishment must be unusual or it serves no purpose." He then pointed his stump at another boy. "What would happen if a puppy was spanked every hour?"

"Uh...probably drive him crazy!"

"Probably. It certainly will not teach him anything. How long has it been since the principal of this school last had to switch a pupil?"

"Uh, I'm not sure. About two years. The kid that swiped--"

"Never mind. Long enough. It means that such punishment is so unusual as to be significant, to deter, to instruct. Back to these young criminals-- They probably were not spanked as babies; they certainly were not flogged for their crimes. The usual sequence was: for a first offense, a warning -- a scolding, often without a trial. After several offenses a sentence of confinement but with sentence suspended and the youngster placed on probation. A boy might be arrested many times and convicted several times before he was punished--and then it would merely be confinement, with others like him from whom he learned still more criminal habits. If he kept out of major trouble while confined, he could usually evade most of even that mild punishment, be given probation--'paroled' in the jargon of the times."

"This incredible sequence could go on for years while his crimes increased in frequency and viciousness, with no punishment whatever save rare dull-but-comfortable confinements. Then, suddenly, usually by law on his eighteenth birthday, this so-called 'juvenile delinquent' becomes an adult criminal--and sometimes wound up in only weeks or months in a death cell awaiting execution for murder. You", he had singled me out again. "Suppose you merely scolded your puppy, never punished him, let him go on making messes in the house...and occasionally locked him up in an outbuilding but soon let him back into the house with a warning not to do it again. Then one day you notice that he is now a grown dog and still not housebroken--whereupon you whip out your gun and shoot him dead. Comment, please?"

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2009, 05:43:07 AM »
"Why...that's the craziest way to raise a dog I ever heard of!"

"I agree. Or a child. Whose fault would it be?"

"Uh...why mine, I guess."

"Again I agree, but I am not guessing."

"Mr. Dubois," a girl blurted out, "but why? Why didn't they spank little kids when they needed it and use a good dose of the strap on any older ones who deserved it--the sort of lesson they wouldn't forget! I mean ones who did things really bad. Why not?"

"I don't know," he had answered grimly, "except that the time-tested method of instilling social virtue and respect for law in the minds of the young did not appeal to a pre-scientific pseudo-professional class who called themselves 'social workers' or sometimes 'child psychologists.' It was too simple for them, apparently, since anybody could do it, using only the patience and firmness needed in training a puppy. I have sometimes wondered if they cherished a vested interest in disorder--but that is unlikely; adults almost always act from conscious 'highest motives' no matter what their behavior."

"But--good heavens!" the girl answered. "I didn't like being spanked any more than any kid does, but when I needed it, my momma delivered. The only time I ever got a switching in school I got another one when I got home--and that was years and years ago. I don't ever expect to be hauled up in front of a judge and sentenced to a flogging; you behave yourself and such things don't happen. I don't see anything wrong with our system; it's a lot better than not being able to walk outside for fear of your life--why, that's horrible!"

"I agree. Young lady, the tragic wrongness of what those well-meaning people did, contrasted with what they thought they were doing, goes very deep. They had no scientific theory of morals. They did have a theory of morals and they tried to live by it (I should not have sneered at their motives), but their theory was wrong--half of it fussy-headed wishful thinking, half of it rationalized charlatanry. The more earnest they were, the farther it lead them astray. You see, they assumed that Man has a moral instinct."

"Sir? But I thought-- But he does! I have."

"No, my dear, you have a cultivated conscience, a most carefully trained one. Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not--and a puppy has none. We acquire moral sense, when we do, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind. These unfortunate juvenile criminals were born with none, even as you and I, and they had no chance to acquire any; their experiences did not permit it. What is moral sense? It is an elaboration of the instinct to survive. The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations. This truth is mathematically demonstrable, everywhere verifiable; it is the single eternal imperative controlling everything we do."

"But the instinct to survive," he had gone on, "can be cultivated into motivations more subtle and much more complex than the blind, brute urge of the individual to stay alive. Young lady, what you have miscalled your 'moral instinct' was the instilling in your by your elders of the truth that survival can have stronger imperatives than that of your own personal survival. Survival of your family, for example. Of your children, when you have them. Of your nation, if you struggle that high up the scale. And so on up. A scientifically verifiable theory of morals must be rooted in the individual's instinct to survive--and nowhere else!--and must correctly describe the hierarchy of survival, not the motivations at each level, and resolve all conflicts."

"We have such a theory now; we can solve any moral problem, on any level. Self-interest, love of family, duty to country, responsibility toward the human race--we are even developing an exact ethic for extra-human relations. But all moral problems can be illustrated by one misquotation: 'Greater love hath no man than a mother cat dying to defend her kittens.'

Once you understand the problem facing that cat and how she solved it, you will then be ready to examine yourself and learn how high up the moral ladder you are capable of climbing"

"Those juvenile criminals hit a low level. Born with only the instinct for survival, the highest morality they achieved was a shaky loyalty to a peer group, a street gang. But the do-gooders attempted to 'appeal to their better natures,' to 'reach them' to 'spark their moral sense.' Tosh! They had no 'better natures'; experience taught them that what they were doing was the way to survive. The puppy never got his spanking; therefor what he did with pleasure and success must be 'moral.'"

"The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to a group that self-interest has to an individual. Nobody preached duty to these kids in a way they could understand--that is, with a spanking. But the society they were in told them endlessly about their 'rights.'"

"The results should have been predictable, since a human being has no natural rights of any nature."

Mr. Dubois had paused. Somebody took the bait. "Sir? How about 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'?"

"Ah, yes, the 'unalienable rights.' Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of "right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's 'right' is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called 'natural human fights' that have ever been invented, liberty is the least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost."

"The third 'right'?--the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives--but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it."

Mr. Dubois then turned to me. "I told you that 'juvenile delinquent' is a contradiction in terms. 'Delinquent' means 'failing in duty.' But duty is an adult virtue--indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be, a 'juvenile delinquent.' But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents--people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail."

"And that was the soft spot which destroyed what was in many ways an admirable culture. The junior hoodlums who roamed their streets were symptoms of a greater sickness; their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure."


---
Thoughts on Juvenile Delinquency by Robert A. Heinlein
From Starship Troopers, pp 139-147
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: 10 years later,Columbine High School massacre
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2009, 06:42:47 AM »
The way the schoolsystem forces incompatible kids together and provides means for group bullying is what causes these killings.

Imagine being forced to join a community of teenagers for years and years and get bullied or ridiculed every day - for no reason whatsoever except a group of tards picked a fight with you. Possibly for being smarter than they are, possibly for being fat whatever the reason. There's only so much a persons psyche can take untill it snaps. I used to be a victim of school bullying and I seriously had plans to kill a couple of the worst bullies.

The only thing that stoped me was knowing it would have ended my own future too. Fortunately I changed school to a better one which was a lifesaver. The old school was a complete nightmare - students had anarchy and teachers got beaten up or verbally abused every day. Not to mention lower grade 'rookies'.

I never suffered from bullying (I made it perfectly clear when I was very young that I would fight back twice as hard against anyone who even thought of pushing me around) but I truly feel the effects of schools forcing incompatable people together. My school is slowly removing the track system (We have AP, Honors, X, Y, Z, PINS, and SpEd; in that order from most intelligent to least intelligent. Most classes are not available in AP or Honors, and AP is only available to Seniors, unless you're like me and you can secure a waiver) and several of my classes over the last year have not been homogenous. That is to say, there were no levels, all students were put together. I am in every AP class I can take, every Honors class I can take, and for the few classes that don't offer those two, I am in X. I am smart. And nothing is more infuriating than being stuck with people who are only above Special Ed by less than a percentage point in their GPA. My Honors classes and AP classes are a dream. People listen to the teacher, work gets done, people can focus... Whereas my non-homogenous classes (This year I only have two, and I am the TA for one so I MAKE the kids listen) are absolute hell. The students control the teacher with threats and intimidation. People are always shouting, throwing things, being loud, obnoxious, making it impossible to do anything... More than once I have seriously considered just standing up and beating the crap out of some of the kids who refuse to shut up. Nothing makes me angrier than stupid people.


Disclaimer: I make a distinction between stupid people, and people who lack intelligence. People who lack intelligence are willing to learn, and should be helped to learn. Stupid people refuse to learn, and thus should be removed from society by any means necessary.