The SpitXIV conundrum

[Karnak]

That would be a great many "what happened"s.

Basically the Spit XIV is fast, but not top end fast, turns well, but not great, rolls poorly, is one of the most fragile fighters and climbs like a bat out of hell.  There are a goodly number of fighters that hold all the cards on it if they start with a bit of an altitude advantage.  Now, if the Spit XIV is embroiled in a fight when they show up with that altitude advantage, well, it becomes hard to survive against enemies that will endlessly press you because you are wearing a perk tag.  At least it isn't a 6000 yard perk tag anymore.

[MachFly]

That would be a great many "what happened"s.

Basically the Spit XIV is fast, but not top end fast, turns well, but not great, rolls poorly, is one of the most fragile fighters and climbs like a bat out of hell.  There are a goodly number of fighters that hold all the cards on it if they start with a bit of an altitude advantage.  Now, if the Spit XIV is embroiled in a fight when they show up with that altitude advantage, well, it becomes hard to survive against enemies that will endlessly press you because you are wearing a perk tag.  At least it isn't a 6000 yard perk tag anymore.

If you do you right stuff you can turn the table just like that. Because spitfire has the ability of regaining energy very quickly and maintaining much better that all other fighters.

[BnZs]

embroiled in a fight when they show up with that altitude advantage, well, it becomes hard to survive

Hard to survive...yup, that is how I think the MA would be for someone who wanted to take up a P47* or Fw-190* if there were free and unlimited SpitXIVs.

Cut the price, look at the handling.

EDIT: My friend, you find it hard to survive when more maneuverable fighters or just a gang with  alt to convert to catching shows up? Welcome to the experience of AHII, unless you are flying a 262! 361mph on the deck IS elite speed...what non-perk ride exceeds that speed...P-51, P-47N, D9, Typhoon, La7...all of them with one glaring exception inferior in maneuverability and climb rate to the SpitXIV...and that lone exception is another plane which should be lightly perked!

[Kazaa]

The Spitfire Mk.XIV shouldn't be perked in it's current state, give it 21lbs of boost and then I might change my mind.

[BnZs]

The Spitfire Mk.XIV shouldn't be perked in it's current state, give it 21lbs of boost and then I might change my mind.

Improved handling would mean more than pouring some more power to it.

[Kazaa]

Improved handling would mean more than pouring some more power to it.

How do you know the Spitfire Mk. XIV doesn't handle exactly the way it did in WW2? Do you have any proof of the XIV being any better? If so please share.

I bring up the subject of 21lbs of boost because it’s a true fact that the XIV could operated at that boost with the right fuel.

[Karnak]

Hard to survive...yup, that is how I think the MA would be for someone who wanted to take up a P47* or Fw-190* if there were free and unlimited SpitXIVs.

Irrelevant.  That is how the arena is with free Ki-84s to Bf110s.

[BnZs]

Irrelevant.  That is how the arena is with free Ki-84s to Bf110s.

You are speaking of one plane that is significantly slower than a SpitXIV (below 350mph on the deck) and which cannot follow a target in a high-speed dive due to structural failure issues. The other plane you speak of is incredibly well armed but rather slow indeed, only moderate turner, and a poor climber. Not at all comparable to the problems a SpitXIV could pose for many other planes.

If how a plane's all-around performance stacks up against other planes, thus effecting their viability, is not relevant to perkage, then I don't know what the heck is. There would be no need to perk the Tempest if every plane went 390mph at sea level.

[BnZs]

How do you know the Spitfire Mk. XIV doesn't handle exactly the way it did in WW2? Do you have any proof of the XIV being any better? If so please share.

I bring up the subject of 21lbs of boost because it’s a true fact that the XIV could operated at that boost with the right fuel.

All I can say about handling issues is that from the reports I've read from folks like Eric Brown don't mention highly unusual flying difficulties of the SpitXIV relative other aircraft. The knew it could not turn as well as more lightly-loaded earlier Spits of course, and it was said to be more of a handful on the ground, but nothing about any special instability as a gun platform and the like.

P-51Ds were being operated at 75" MAP by the end of the war, but we don't have that either, so I guess we'll just have to do without.

EDIT: You do realize that my wish would make the SpitXIV the lowest priced perk fighter? Throw me a bone here. 

[chewiex]

Here's some numbers if anyone cares.


Taking some info from Spatula's AHII Aircraft Performance charts...here's some info for the Spit 16 vs. Spit 14.

Spit 16 speed @ sea-level = 316 mil/ 342 wep
Spit 14 speed @ sea-level = 334 mil/ 361 wep

Spit 16 speed @ 5k =336 mil/ 362 wep
Spit 14 speed @ 5k = 358 mil/ 386 wep

Spit 16 speed @ 10k = 358 mil/ 385 wep
Spit 14 speed @ 10k = 385 mil/ 410 wep

Speeds increase and decrease with Alt. Point being the Spit 14 is superior to the 16 at all alts as far as speed goes.
The Spit 16 has better acceleration through 5k and the 14 begins to accelerate better around 10k and up.

Climb rates:
At sea level the Spit 14 and 16 climb at the same rate with full military power. 3,684 ft/min The 16 holds this CR up to 11k. The 14's CR increases with Alt from 3,684 ft/min at sea-level steadily increasing to 3,845 ft/min by 11k. Climb rates for both A/C start to drop off from there. Where the Spit 16's CR actually increases and surpasses the 14's substantially from 16k to 24k whereas the 16 will out-climb the 14. Below 14k, with wep, the 14 has wicked CR from 4,920 ft/min at sea-level, 5,025 ft/min at 5k and 5,70 ft/min at 8k dropping off from there.

So, from this info, it can be determined that the Spit 14 is far superior to the Spit 16 in both speed and climb rate Superior climb rates up to 14k and then climb rate 21k to 30k. Between 14k and 21k, the 16 is better. The 14's speed however is superior through all alt's.

The Spit 16 on the other hand has better turn rate, sustained turn rate and tighter turn radius over all than the 14.

Clearly, the 16 is a formidable opponent for the 14 in a mid/low alt turn fight. The 14 has better flat out speed,climb and acceleration and should take the fight vertical and high. BnZ would be the way to go with a 14 vs 16. The 16 should keep it TnB style. Hope this may clear up the Spit 14 vs 16 questions. Please feel free to add any further inf if you have it.

SALUTE A8Chewey

[Karnak]

It seems the Mk XIV is in a hard place, too good to be free and not good enough to be perked.

Personally, I think that if it were unperked there would be a brief explosion of them as people used the former perk plane, and then it would see low usage due to the quirks it has.

If that is not an option, then the boost should be raised to +21lbs and maybe then it would be good enough to be a perk plane in its own right.

[Kazaa]

It seems the Mk XIV is in a hard place, too good to be free and not good enough to be perked.

Personally, I think that if it were unperked there would be a brief explosion of them as people used the former perk plane, and then it would see low usage due to the quirks it has.

If that is not an option, then the boost should be raised to +21lbs and maybe then it would be good enough to be a perk plane in its own right.

Either that or just lower the perks like BnZ said.

[Karnak]

Either that or just lower the perks like BnZ said.

That will have no effect.  It is already so cheap as to just be a token perk price and its usage and k/d still suck.

[MstWntd]

That will have no effect.  It is already so cheap as to just be a token perk price and its usage and k/d still suck.

Personally, I kind of feel "special" in it per say. Or maybe it's just that purdy engine sound and 5 bladed prop.

[Kazaa]

That will have no effect.  It is already so cheap as to just be a token perk price and its usage and k/d still suck.

Is true, I have over 3,000 perks and I don't even fly the XIV.