Mysterious move

[mechanic]

They will only gain on your if you try to pull harder to turn into them (plane match-up pending, of course. Spit5 vs Lancaster in a head on merge may provide different results). Once you notice they have gone full persuit from the merge and you dont stand a chance of slowing down in time to compete it is wise to make your next move wide, fast and high. Try to lead them in a direction that increases their G force and drag to follow you. Manage their energy with how you lead them as well as your own.

[F6Fraven]

I'm sure this probably isn't what you're talking about but I can do something similair to a cobra in a spit 16-9 and F6F. It's not a pure cobra but by pulling the stick all the way back, using about 80-90% right rudder and full opposite ailleron you can put the planes into a controlable stall with over a 90 degree angle of attack(not sure if that's the right term for it.) I found that doing such a move will bleed off about 50 mph in a few seconds and can be done at almost any speed below 300 mph without flaps in a spit 16. If you pull the move for too long you will continue to bleed energy but the plane will go into a back flip which is not easy to recover from.
  AKRaVeN

[choppit]

They will only gain on your if you try to pull harder to turn into them.

That's the problem, what I'm talking about here is a nose to nose merge, they pull the move so quickly I could tell what they were doing and decide not to pull a reversal, then magically they start closing. The fight where I remember this was, I was in an A8 and an La-7 along with a large horde following, the La comes in a flat, nose to nose merge, I decided to keep going as to not bleed my E, as I knew I would be killed by the Horde. The La just comes in does the cobra and then starts closing. At the time I was wepping and on the deck. Whatever this move is, I would love to know how it's done

[mechanic]

With film it would be evident. The La7 came in at around 400mph or much more possibly, your A8 may only have been going alot slower when you merged head to head. The La7 can burn all his excess speed in a hard 180 loops and then dive back down to almost the same speed in persuit with its formidable diving acceleration. This is a possibility i think.

[choppit]

With film it would be evident. The La7 came in at around 400mph or much more possibly, your A8 may only have been going alot slower when you merged head to head. The La7 can burn all his excess speed in a hard 180 loops and then dive back down to almost the same speed in persuit with its formidable diving acceleration. This is a possibility i think.

First off, I never film. Secondly, like I said in my previous post, I know very well not to bleed my E in a 190, I wouldn't be caught with my pants down in a situation like that. Also, like the OP said, this move is used in the space of seconds, not a hard 180 loop and then dive on me. There would still be a period of egress, even if slight(~egress of only 200 yds.) in a reversal like that, I've seen it done before, and have done it myself.

[mechanic]

if you are merging head to head, as you say, then it is not a reversal as far as I know. It is a merge, you are being out merged by either a factor of plane performance, relative speeds, vertical seperation or pilot ability. (you refuse to help yourself by filming and letting us help you)

You cannot view things as 'up down left right faster slower'. The speed induced four dimensional aspect of moving in free three dimensional space is confusing your eye to see something impossible.

[Cajunn]

I know what he's saying, I seen it done in a ME109 and at first I thought I was seeing things, the 109 was in a climb and merged with another plane and while I was watching the 109 did what I would call a half turn it was as if it slid around in place and was heading in the other direction on the plane he was in the merge with. I'll see if I have it on one of my films!

[A8TOOL]

I don't film much although I wish I had many times for the truly good fights.
There have been a few times I've been chasing someone (both of us slightly nose down for speed)and they'd be 1.5 - 2.0k ahead of me then somehow do an instant reverse that I can't see happening. I'll be thinking I'm still following but in actuality their coming right back at me and slightly nose up for the ho.

They are far and few between and since i don't film often, they're hard to catch. The one i remember most was an F4U but never found out eho he was.

[pervert]

First off, I never film. Secondly, like I said in my previous post, I know very well not to bleed my E in a 190, I wouldn't be caught with my pants down in a situation like that. Also, like the OP said, this move is used in the space of seconds, not a hard 180 loop and then dive on me. There would still be a period of egress, even if slight(~egress of only 200 yds.) in a reversal like that, I've seen it done before, and have done it myself.

Bats right this is just an illusion on your part if you had the film and looked at the speeds at the merge and how it was done it would become clear. I can understand about not filming if your pc sucks like mine but it would be worth filming until this happened to you again. Like bat said in the clear light of film you'll see its just an efficient turn started with more energy perhaps helped by you rolling the plane slightly to watch him behind you.

[chewiex]

I have the same thing happen to me alot. Head to head clean merge then BAM I get shot down within a split-second by the same plane. I as well, need to run films of these. I have done an instant reversal in a P-51 before. I cannot do it again, I have tried. Not sure what the speed, throttle position, rudder or stick movements were at the time. All I know was it was a high speed merge and a climbing reversal that got me a kill.

Interested in seeing films of this "mystery move" myself. I'll run films of my own and maybe compare to yours Boner.

SALUTE
A8Chewey

[Bruv119]

mysterious  ,

My favourite move that i nailed after about 2 years of flying and dying is what i would call a barrel roll overshoot/wingover/ reversal,  you can set it up from any angle,  you aren't strictly nose to nose but off to one side,  you pull up and left/right, roll about 90 degrees whatever way you turn in, stop rolling (the con flies through the gap) I can shoot them inverted on the snapshot or roll out behind them and take a shot as they are extending away,  more often than not they haven't a clue where i've gone because i'm behind them on their 6 and they will then blow their E advantage by panicking and hard looping it whilst i am slow  i can stall underneath and latch onto them as they dive past going too fast and then get an even longer shot.  If  I miss the initial shot (rare) they will be dead on the second shot (bruv don't miss twice  )

I guess film will be the easiest medium to show this witchcraft called ACM!

I can't go into any more detail as this is my bread and butter kill / defence and although i've perfected it, if everyone knew how to do it I would never get a kill.

[mechanic]

And if everyone else had kept it secret too, you would possibly never have learnt it
It is a great move though, the only real way to counter an attack and return fire in one move.

[humble]

There are a lot of fun moves you can try, outside of a hiccup in the FM modeling certain realities do apply however. For a plane to pull a sudden reverse it needs to be within a certain flight parameter. A "high speed" reverse has to have a wingtip stall to accomplish. Some planes will do this much better then others. In addition rudder inputs greatly impact this type of move as does Elevator authority. In effect the opposing pilot is using the rotational capabilities of the airframe (in 3 dimensions) to reverse course. vs using degrees of radius.

The reality is that this move has to be properly set up with both speed and separation within certain limits. It also has to be initiated earlier then you think. He's got to be maneuvering before the merge to spring the reverse at the merge. I can "flip" a 190D or 152 at high speed since they will stall a wingtip at 300+ mph. However without a vertical component (elevator) to bring the rudder into play nothing works. Basically what you have is a high speed stall/spin executed at a high AoA and recovered after 1/2 rotation. This limits your speed at inception but provides a down hill ramp to accelerate. Initiated prior to the merge this can result in a bogey appearing to "pop up" and right back around on your 6. If your own speed falls within certain limits or you react with control inputs that scrub speed then you can be caught. However if you've flown your own merge correctly then you chuckle and swat the guy in the head at your leisure. Thats why you don't see this stuff very often....its ineffective vs a good stick.

This is not to be confused with the Bruv/Bat/Blukitty/Greebo school of reversal kungfu .... totally different things.

[whiteman]

I've had the same thing happen to me and of course I'm never recording when it happens. I think the angles they are taking gives the appearance that they're coming straight at you when their actually not taking a straight path.

[mechanic]

Is this what you are talking about? I am the one who dies so it should look similar to yours if i've got you right.


http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/11kownme.ahf


S! 11