The global warming as for today :D

[MORAY37]

I'll decline to get involved in this again. 

As for global cooling.....   

[Angus]

Just read the news about the Tromsö conference.
One big issue on the conference is the impact of GW on the Northern area, and how to try to minimize problems and exploit new possibilities, which are already there and expanding. Those relate to new oil grounds being found where there was ice before, the possibilities of a pacific connection (on a regular basis) by ships over the polar area, and new opportunities in agriculture on the colder areas.
Doesn't look particularly much like some GW hype, this is dealing with real cirkumstances, which are there and carry on to some destination.
Same here, I have been exploiting GW for some years now, so the cooling preachers just make me laugh 

[Shuffler]

http://climatedepot.com/a/429/Report-Democrats-Refuse-to-Allow-Skeptic-to-Testify-Alongside-Gore-At-Congressional-Hearing

Check the links at the bottom. Info is available all over the internet. You don't have to go to any of the so called news shows.

I have trouble trying to listen to someone like gore speaking of something he has no training in. He also tells me to drive an electric car... probably so he can keep poluting with his private jet going all over the place.

[Denholm]

...He also tells me to drive an electric car...

Don't people realize a lot of the energy created for those, "green" electric vehicles comes from coal and nuclear power-plants? In my opinion, it's more of a downer.

[Angus]

The conversion actually does not loose energy. BTW, a conventional car looses about 80% of the fuel energy anyway.
The difference will be pollution control rather than "energy from nowhere".
However the true green vehicles would be running on methane for instance, or bio-diesel.
You can NEVER claim that the production of such fuels consumes more energy than given back, since it does not work. Economically. Get the point?
Electricity in pure form can also come from more sources than fossile fuel burning, i.e. Hydro, Wind etc, while fossile fuels only are ... fossile fuels....

[Speed55]

Electricity in pure form can also come from more sources than fossile fuel burning...

There's a new lightning rod car coming out in 2010, that can only be driven in storms. 

[E25280]

Glacial melting basically goes with the air temp, while both affect the sea ice. But melting sea ice does not raise SL.
So, glacial melting is also a very good indicator on temperature development in our hemosphere.

And those same glaciers have been melting essentially since the end of the end of the last ice age.  They re-build somewhat during cool periods, but the pattern for thousands of years is that they are shrinking.  So what?

I find it funny that events like finding the "Ice Man" in the Alps is occasionally trotted out as evidence of global warming.  "Wow, this guy was buried in ice for thousands of years, and now we can find him because of global warming."  Which, ironically (although lost on MMGW advocates) actually only proves that these cycles are natural.

After all, when the ice man died -- there was no glacier there -- ergo, the world was warmer then, too.

[Angus]

I am fully aware of the natural cycles. And now it is warming, natural or not. The northern people have realized that and are looking at the two sides of the coin, the good and the bad. Thinking business-wise.

[warhed]

Don't people realize a lot of the energy created for those, "green" electric vehicles comes from coal and nuclear power-plants? In my opinion, it's more of a downer.

I think you may find nuclear plants don't put out many greenhouse gases, or any pollutants for that matter.  Not many cleaner or safer forms of energy, especially considering how much they output...

[Hornet33]

Angus, your obviously a global warming believer and truth be told I have no problem with that, but I have to ask.

Do you think people can actually do ANYTHING to stop the earth from changing? Marine fossils have been found in the Rocky Mountains, the Alps, they've even found them on Mt. Everest. That's proof that at one time all those places were under water. There is geological evidence in Central Park that proves that at one time a glacier more than a mile thick sat on top of New York City. The planet constantly changes. Sometimes slowly, sometimes in the blink of the eye. Here's an excample, in 1883 the island of Krakatoa vanished in seconds when it exploded, sending ash into the atmosphere that stayed there for years and contributed to cooling the global climate. Evidence of this has been found in ice core samples from around the world. That island is back again and is now called Anak Krakatau and it's erupting all the time. What's going to happen when it blows it's top?

I agree polution is a bad thing and should be reduced whenever possible, BUT, to say that mankind is causing all these changes we see everyday in the enviroment just doesn't make any sense. The entire planet, the land, the oceans, the atmosphere, everything, is ALWAYS in a state of flux, constantly changing, and there is nothing that we can do as a species to stop it. We will either adapt as the planet evolves and changes or we will die as a species like the dinosaurs did.

I just can't support a theory that says people are causing the planet to change, when there is historical evidence of the same changes happening in the past when people couldn't have been the problem. In the great sceme of things, considering how long this planet has been around, and how long it's going to be around, we (you and I) are only living on this rock for a nano second. What can we do in such a short period of time? Nothing. We will not make anything better or worse over the long haul of the planet.

[Getback]

There's a new lightning rod car coming out in 2010, that can only be driven in storms. 

Will it take you "Back to the Future"? Will it be as successful as the Delorean?

[Speed55]

After reading more i found out it's actually a modification which can fit any vehicle, and what's real cool is that it comes with an interactive aluminum steering wheel so you get a real 'feel' for the power.  Go green!! 

[MORAY37]

So, glacial melting is also a very good indicator on temperature development in our hemosphere. Either way, the result is the same,  - warming.

Glacial melt is NOT a good indicator.  I've explained why to you previous, Angus.  It may be proven in the future that climate shift is the causal agent, but glacier formation (and decline) is dictated by the amount and type of precipitation received the previous year, NOT on the average temperature.  This would obviously change if the climate moved past 0 degrees C for the entire year at the glacial point, but that is extreme.

[MORAY37]

[Angus]

Glacial melt is NOT a good indicator.  I've explained why to you previous, Angus.  It may be proven in the future that climate shift is the causal agent, but glacier formation (and decline) is dictated by the amount and type of precipitation received the previous year, NOT on the average temperature.  This would obviously change if the climate moved past 0 degrees C for the entire year at the glacial point, but that is extreme.

What is a good indicator?
I am a layman, yes. But as far as I can see, when worldwide glaciers on land melt enough to raise world's Sl over a period of some decades, it's a heck of a better long-range indicator than "it was a colder winter in Montana than the last 2 years".
I forgot the sea ice age though. Although that touches shorter periods, it getting younger and thinner rings the same bell.
It's tough to claim i's getting warmer when this is going on, and after all the type of precipation (snow vs rain) depends on air temp and will, as you claim, affect glacial formation.
What do you call a glacial point by the way?