Author Topic: Tiger's perk price  (Read 2445 times)

Offline moot

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Tiger's perk price
« on: April 29, 2009, 03:01:46 PM »
Is too high.  It should either be lower or it should get historically correct advantage in optics, or something.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 03:04:16 PM »
Tiger's price is fine.  Firefly's is way too low.
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Offline moot

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 03:50:17 PM »
Same difference... The Tiger doesn't warrant however many perks it's priced at right now VS the rest of the tanks.  Ridiculously disproportionate to its actual performance (VS the rest of the tanks).  Proper optics would shake up the tactical game and fix the perk pricing.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 04:05:57 PM »
Well if we had a regular Sherman...you know...the tiger was FEARED on the battlefield. It used to be in AH back in the TT days. When someone upped a Tiger you'd hear screaming over VOX, because it dominated the battlefield there, and it was just like world war II, you needed 4-5 tanks to kill it (usually). Then the Sherman came along with it's 5 perk price and it's the new king...

Up the Sherman as in this game it seems better than the tiger. At least in my POV...I've taken one hits from Panzers in Shermans and Tigers...should not be the same..the Tiger should have lasted a lot more hits.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 04:56:58 PM »
moot I have to disagree because tigers seem to kill with one shot more easily at over 3k then it does at 1k. A tiger can also kill a panzer with one hit of HE to the turret and nothing drops hangars faster than a tiger but also you can miss an ack by a lot more with tiger HE and still kill it. The same is true of shooting airplanes on the runway or any of the m3s or  m16s or m8s. A tiger can also depress its gun more than a panzer or sherman but it is true that anything inside of 800 will kill a tiger with one shot and the turret cannot elevate high or traverse quickly. I think the plus column out weighs the minus column and there is a lot I left out on the plus side.
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Offline sethipus

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 05:00:24 PM »
Well if we had a regular Sherman...you know...the tiger was FEARED on the battlefield. It used to be in AH back in the TT days. When someone upped a Tiger you'd hear screaming over VOX, because it dominated the battlefield there, and it was just like world war II, you needed 4-5 tanks to kill it (usually). Then the Sherman came along with it's 5 perk price and it's the new king...
I remember when Panzers had a hell of a time killing a Tiger from practically any range.

Quote
Up the Sherman as in this game it seems better than the tiger. At least in my POV...I've taken one hits from Panzers in Shermans and Tigers...should not be the same..the Tiger should have lasted a lot more hits.

There's a scenario running currently.  It's Tunisia.  We're seeing a force of Tigers and Panzers against a force of Sherman Fireflies and Panzers.  Let me tell you, the Tigers dominate the Shermans in this environment.  Everyone on both sides who has been involved in this large-scale desert tank battle can tell you that.

The crucial difference between what we're seeing in cartoon Tunisia, and what you're seeing in the MAs, is that in Tunisia we're fighting across very expansive desert terrain, where the shots are taken at much longer average ranges.  At long ranges, say 2500-5000 yards, the Tiger's gun is able to breach the Sherman's armor a lot more readily than the Firefly's gun is able to breach the Tiger's armor.  Even at closer ranges a Tiger has a better chance of withstanding a hit from the Sherman than the Sherman has of withstanding the Tiger hit.  

In the MAs, people tend to be using Tigers and Shermans in wooded and hilly terrain where the average shots are more like 400-1600 yards or so.  At these ranges the Shermans have better chances against Tigers than at much longer ranges, but the Tigers still kill the Sherman more often than vice versa, even at these ranges.  Just look at the scores page and do the numbers - the Tiger has a greater than 1.0 k/d ratio against the Shermans in the LW arenas.

Bottom line is that the Tigers are definitely worth more perks than the Shermans.  I would agree, however, that the difference in costs is currently too great.  The Tiger perk price could probably stand to be dropped by five points, and raise the Sherman perk price by five points, and it would probably be about right.

If the T34/85's turret weren't made out of paper mache, I'd say its price could stand to go up a couple points too.  Even with its soft turret, IMHO the T34/85 is still the most useful tank in the game for most situations.

ps:  Just as an anecdote, in frame 2 of Tunisia two of my tank deaths were when I'd managed to get really close to the Tigers, much closer than usual, and hit Tigers from around 800-1000 yards and did no damage, and the Tigers subsequently killed me.  In one of those deaths, I'd actually hit the Tiger twice from around 900 yards and did nothing.  Arg!

Offline sethipus

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 05:05:46 PM »
nothing drops hangars faster than a tiger but also you can miss an ack by a lot more with tiger HE and still kill it.
Actually, we'd have to test this, but I believe the T34/85 can drop a hangar more quickly then a Tiger.  The T34/85 can do it with I believe 12 HE rounds.  I might be off by one.  I don't recall how many the Tiger takes, but I believe it's more than 12.

The T34/85's HE rounds pack quite a wollop.  Many times I've turreted a panzer or wirble and then fired some HE rounds at them from my T34/85 in order to ensure I get the kill* after some stupid fighters had strafed them, and had the HE rounds kill them instead (and I get an assist... ARG).

*by stacking some extra damage in my column for this vehicle before administering the killshot

Offline Pannono

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 05:06:56 PM »
Tiger would kill it faster, T-34/85 takes longer to reload I believe
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Offline moot

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 05:31:58 PM »
Chalenge - I'm not saying unperk it. I'm saying 30 perks vs the 5 perks for the M4 and /85 is too much.  If the Tiger has more elevation range, its turret is also dead slow and its HE ballistics are terrible. Unlike the M4 which has a quick turret and by far the best ballistics for both AP and HE, and whose turret mostly deflects 12oc 88mm APs from long range and level ground.  Hell.. Even point blank its mantle deflects 88-APs.  And long range true hits aren't guaranteed kills at all.

Sethipus - The tiger isn't dominating the M4. Tigers are definitely worth more than M4s, but not 6:1.  More like 4:1, tops. == 20 perks at most.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 05:32:43 PM »
I remember when Panzers had a hell of a time killing a Tiger from practically any range.
Those were the days. Nowadays it's just "Oh, Tiger is up, lemme up a Sherman I'll kill him"
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Offline sethipus

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 05:35:53 PM »
Tiger would kill it faster, T-34/85 takes longer to reload I believe
The T34/76 takes longer to reload, but the T34/85 doesn't.  It's as fast as the other tanks.

We should test this hangar thing.  I'll see if I can do something with it this evening.

Offline moot

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2009, 05:41:25 PM »
No need to test.. It's on the projectile strength table at the trainers' site.  Scratch that.. It's not.  PM one of the trainers, or add the info to its Wiki page if you get an exact value.. You can do that by e.g. finding the exact hardness coefficient for an object offline that 1 85mm round destroys.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 05:45:52 PM by moot »
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Offline Banshee7

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 05:46:01 PM »
The ratios, as you stated m00t, are definitely FUBAR.  Before anyone uses "learn how to shoot" thing, I've been around tanks for a long time (used to be a big tanker).  I have hit M4's with a Tiger at 1600 yards (that's the little 16 on the gunsight for the clueless ones) and have them shrug off the damage, then in return 1 ping me.  M4s have become sooo popular because of their low perk cost and dominance over other thanks (except Tiger, which is still kind of odd).


What does it really matter anyway?  All tanks are used for is to camp the spawns and hangars.  There is a great lacking in actual tanks fights like their used to be.
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Offline sethipus

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2009, 05:49:05 PM »
What does it really matter anyway?  All tanks are used for is to camp the spawns and hangars.  There is a great lacking in actual tanks fights like their used to be.
There are plenty of good tank fights.  What's lacking is not good tank fights, it's good tank fights far enough away from airfields that the A-20 and IL-2 bozos can't come and dork it up.

Offline moot

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Re: Tiger's perk price
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2009, 05:52:52 PM »
1.4:1, or 7 perk Tiger for a 5 perk M4.  So nowhere near 6:1 like we have, and lower than the 15-20 perks I'd give it.
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