No P51H in Aces High

[M.C.202]

This whole thread is based on one concept, if it did not fly in combat (as I define combat) before the end of WWII, it does not belong in this game.

This is as bad a choice as the "there were only XXX number built, so it does not belong" point of view. The U.S. player could set that number at, say 2,000 units delivered to the field as a minimum and then what would be left to fly?

If you want the "must have historicaly flown combat", will you also want the historic ratio of numbers? How about the historic fuel and spare parts supply? Be limited to the aircraft of one nation in the ratio that they were flown in combat(out of 50 LW birds in the air over Germany, what % were the latest new and improved models in historic use)? If so, I hope you like the Bf109G.  A point can be made that after late '44 no German aircraft did much to change the outcome of the war, so should there be no German aircraft in the game post Oct.'44?

Yes, the P-51H did not see combat over Europe, but the Ta152 also did not.
For Allied "one-offs" I would like the P-40Q or the M.B.5 , or even the P-55 :-) Why not ask for the Ta 154 instead of the Ta 152?


This is one reason I like early/mid war and historic plane sets.

Verbage like :

>You allied crap pilot oppotrunist dweebs can
>take any damned über plane you want.
>You'll need it when fighting the superior
>pilots of the LW.
>Now go away and have another wet dream.

              or

>It's pure LWwannabee roadkill

does not add to understanding or solving points of honest debate. As the juces flow, thought declines, as I know from my own past :-)

Look to see if there is a point that you can understand on the other side. You don't need to agree, but understanding will help get your own point across.




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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[Nath-BDP]

Difference between the H-0 and H-1 was that the H-0 was a pre-production aircraft and the H-1 just added more fuel tankage, thats about it.  Both had GM1/MW 50.

Btw the H-0/H-1 saw combat with JG 301 beginning in Late February 1945, Josef Keil shot down 5 aircraft in the Ta 152 which made him the only ace in that aircraft.  Several other JG 301 pilots scored victories in the Ta 152 as well.



[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-26-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

The stab (Staff) Flight of /JG 301 was equipped with the H-1, Josef Keil scored his first kill in an H-1 on March 1st.


[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-26-2000).]

[J_A_B]

First of all, the P-51H is no superplane.  Unlike the other late-war planes, the P-51H has well under 2000 HP.  (A p-51 airframe mated with a 2500 HP engine would have been a REAL superplane!)


Also note:   There were more P-51H's by the end of the war than there were F4U-1C's.  The P-51H was in regular squadron service by the end of the war; it just didn't happen to see any enemy planes (enemy planes were scarce by that time).


The P-51H didn't have cannons, either, and even by the current planeset wasn't a spectacular cimber (just over 4k/min)

Basically it was a P-51D with the excess weight removed.  (okay, that is simplistic, but that's the general idea of it.)  That means it was less durable than the P-51D.


If any US plane shouldn't be added, it would be the F8F (incredible climbing ability, incredible acceleration, zeke-like handling, etc, would blow away the N1K).   And, even the F8F had weaknesses--slow by 1945 standards and weakly armed at the time.


For someone who flies German aircraft, think of it like this:

The P-51H is to the P-51D, as the FW-190A-5 is to the FW-190A-8.    It's the same plane (essentially) with less weight.   Except, in the American case, the plane got lighter as it was developed instead of heavier.


Compared to the likes of the Tempest and Ta-152H-1 and P-47M, the P-51H fits in quite well.

Rough performance numbers (these are by no means exact):

Top speed appox 470 MPH

Initial climb appox 4.2k.min

Turning ability better than P-51D, still not as good as spit IX.

J_A_B


P.S.  --   Are there any P-51H's still flying?

[juzz]

Specs of the P-51H-5-NA:

One Packard Merlin V-1650-9 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine rated at 1380 hp for takeoff and a a war emergency power of 2218 hp at 10,200 feet and 1900 hp at 20,000 feet with water injection. Performance: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet, 463 mph at 15,000 feet, and 487 mph at 25,000 feet. Range in clean condition was 755 miles at 359 mph at 10,000 feet, 1975 miles at 239 mph at 10,000 feet. Range with two 62.5 Imp. gall. drop tanks was 1150 miles at 339 mph at 10,000 feet and 1530 miles at 243 mph at 10,000 feet. An altitude of 5000 feet could be reached in 1.5 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. Weights: 6585 pounds empty, 9500 pounds normal loadedb, and 11,500 pounds maximum. Dimensions: Wing span was 37 feet 0 inches, length was 33 feet 4 inches, height was 8 feet 10 inches, and wing area was 235 square feet.

Powerloading: 4.28lb/HP
Wingloading: 40.4lb/ft^2

Checkmate! - with P-51H vs Fw 190D-9 we end up with the same situation as P-51D vs Fw 190A-8...

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-26-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

No P51H

thx

[VISCONTI]

<<<Checkmate! - with P-51H vs Fw 190D-9 we end up with the same situation as P-51D vs Fw 190A-8...>>>

Yesss this is the point!!!!!

New planes (P-51H, Ta152) = Same situation

Where is the progress of this game????

[Wardog]

Only one question that needs to be answered here. And this is for any AC...

Did it reach production in WWII??

Nuff said.

Dog out..

[minus]

DAng  i realy luve when some say 190A8 is a mach for p51 D  
 #!@$%@#^#&^%*&^$(&@#$!@@#$!#@%$#^%&^$*&^(&^$%#$%^$#^$%@^$%&%^*&^


that my answer !!!!!!!!!!!

just go ahead alied just go and u will end up with Alied High game

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by Wardog:
Only one question that needs to be answered here. And this is for any AC...

Did it reach production in WWII??

Nuff said.

Dog out..

So any aircraft that reached production should be in the game?  


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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Rendar]

There is nothing wrong with having the P-51H in AH.  They did fly during WWII, as did the Ta-152H-1.

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Rendar

[Wardog]

Yes, they did fly in the Pacific Theater in WWII but saw no action.

And yes, if it was in production during WWII theres no reason why it shouldnt be modeled here or any other sim.

This give a large advantage to the LW as many jets saw production but no action.

Dog out........

[Nath-BDP]

Not realy, He 162 saw action... I can't think of any other German jet that was produced but saw no action.

[Wardog]

Nath ill start a list when i get home.

Will be another 4 or 5 hours yet, ive only been at work for 12 hours now. The days still young.

[LJK Raubvogel]

So we get the DO-335? I can only imagine the uberposts on that thing.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps