No P51H in Aces High

[J_A_B]

Juzz--

I am not saying you are wrong.  However, I have NEVER seen any clarity at all regarding the performance of the P-51H.   Every source I look at says something different.  Even two sources from the USAF quote widely difference performance for the P-51H.

That is why I did not attempt to provide exact numbers.  I can't find anything "exact" that I can trust.  That lack of consistent data, IMO, would be the largest stumbling block to modeling the P-51H.  Everyone would have a different opinion of what the plane is capable of.

For example, in terms of absolute maximum top speed, I have seen figures everywhere from 465 MPH to 490 MPH.  The 470 I stated is a guesstimate based on roughly what MOST sources seem to say.

As for maximum horsepower...I have never, until your post, seen any figure over 2000 horsepower.  And, here I have to question, because the P-51H used the same engine as the P-51D did.  I am NOT saying you're wrong; it may be that P-51H's were modified at some point.  Once again, I have yet to see any agreement at all between sources on the subject of maximum horsepower for this plane.

Same story with climbing ability.   All I can say is that almost all sources I have state over a 4 k/min initial climbrate; also most of my sources state that one intention of the P-51H was to improve the climbrate over the P-51D.


You are correct, though, in that a matchup between a P-51D and a FW-190A-8 is essentially the same end result as a matchup between a P-51H and a late-model FW.  Which is actually my point--the P-51H is good, but compared to its comtemporaries it's no superplane.  


Also:  I personally don't care if the P-51H is never added to AH (likewise I don't care whether they add a Ta-152).  All I want to do is dispel any myth that the P-51H is some sort of superplane.  Good it is,but no better than its contemporaries (marginally better at best).

J_A_B

[Pongo]

This is so boorrrrinnnggg
The mid war allied planes are better. The late war allied planes are better. What makes any one think that the post war german planes would be better?
For any german plane you wana dig up that sacrifices handling or logical weapons load for climb or speed there are 5 allied planes that will kick its but.
Ask for all the german planes you like but they will be infferior to their contemporaries. Hell they will be inferior to the spit IXb. Thats the way it is.
THE GERMANS MADE 5HIT PLANES! live with it.
They make great models and interesting history but substandard rides.

[juzz]

J_A_B; The P-51H's V-1650-9 had water-methanol injection, that's why it can output 2200HP.

Btw; Does anyone know how much power the F8F-1's R-2800-34W produced with WEP? 2100HP is obviously the "dry" power.

[Hristo]

So, Ta 152H-1 did see combat. Thanks, Nath, for bringing this.

As for best planes, no, Ta 152 was not the best plane in Luftwaffe inventory. IMHO, it was the 262. That thing saw combat.

So, if Verm insists that I change my mind considering Ta 152H-1 and its introduction to AH (despite Josef Keil and others in JG 301 flying the plane in combat), fine. Verm's vast knowledge (with enough arrogance) should immediately recognize my next (and by his standards far more valid) choice. The Me 262.

[juzz]

 

Why didn't planes like Me 262, He 162, Do 335, Go 229 included, if this what-if plane was there ?

The list Pyro posted is a list of variants of current planes in AH, not entirely new planes.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 10-27-2000).]

[Wardog]

The p51-H did not see action in Europe but it was deployed in the Pacific for combat.

p51-H 2,218hp dry. V-1650-9
p51-H 465mph

Ta 152H-1 1,880hp dry 2,250 wet. Jumo 213-1
Ta 152H-1 472mph

Seems a close enough match except for turn rates.

Dog out.

[juzz]

OK, take what dog said, and invert it. The ONLY thing close about the P-51H and Ta 152H-1 would be turn rate.  

[funked]

Juzz I don't have any exact figures, but I'd expect the -34W to be able to do as well as the -18W in the F4U-4, i.e. up to 2800 hp with the right fuel.

[Westy]

 Unlike many in this thread I do not "associate"  myself with a nationality of aircraft nor do I fly one side of WWII. For some of you maybe there will be someone who will make a "Luftwaffe over Europe" sim where the focal point is the best and brightest of Germany only. But real life it wasn't that way.
I swear at times I feel like I'm at a Nuremburg rally with the way some folks react to valid crtiticisms of thier favorite aircraft.

 I fly everything. And I'm not nationalistic about it either. About the only planes I don't fly are the 190-A8 and 109-G10. But I mix up me choices of ride depending on my mood and the situation in the MA.

 As for the DO-335 and HE-162. I DO hope that HTC brings them on. I'd love to fly them. But bring on thier warts and all too, just like every other aircraft has and did in real life. Cause they sure had them, don't keep deluding yourselves that because they were 11th hour airplanes that they were engineering marvels. They weren't. The HE was a pig of a performer from acounts and the DO-335 would the scrouge and bane of the B-29 flying folks, not the P-51H or P-47M flyers.
 Remember. In 1944 to 1945 the Germans were developing high alt bomber interceptors in thier fighters - well, as long as Hitler wasn't watching. But it wasn't air supremacy aircraft.

  -Westy

[Vermillion]

Nath your wrong, wrong, wrong.

The H0 lacked GM1 and MW50. And the H1 never saw combat period. In fact no H1's beyond the prototype were ever built. I will quote my sources this evening when I get home. JG301 was equipped with the H0 not the H1.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Nath-BDP]

It the book it says that it is uncertain wether or not Ta 152H-1s saw action with JG 301, however, in the book "Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile" there are several profiles of H-1 aircraft from JG 301 and it states that Josef Keil scored his kills in an H-1 aircraft.

I beleive thats it highly probably that the H-1 saw action since there were some being built as early as January and there is a picture of a captured H-1 which had overpainted Geschwader markings in the Harmanns book.

[Vermillion]

Tell me how you identify a H1 from an H0 in a picture?

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[juzz]

You read the artist's caption at the bottom Vermillion...  

[Major Tom]

I want chinese biplanes and I'm not leaving until I get them!

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Guess what fellas? All my sources show that a total 0 read as "not a single one" P51H saw combat.  

thanks GRUNHERZ