It has to be said

[ICEWIND]

Hallo,
I will make it short.
I admire the Germans and Japanese for what they have accomplished technologically during the end of the WWII . If you look at the fact that 80% of all German large cities were bombed to dust, I  personally think that the Germans and Japanese accomplished much more than all the Allies altogether, especially compared with America taking the fact that the American mainland was never destroyed and the American industry was always at its best.
Planes that were produced in small numbers despite the fact that basically all of the infrastructure was totally destroyed in Germany or Japan, make German and Japanese planes the most advanced of all times!!

[Westy]

"basically all of the infrastructure was totally destroyed "

 That wasn't the case at all for Germany. Read your history instead of making it up. They moved thier factories undeground and dispersed them as the war progressed the Germans were increasing thier output. Until the factories were over run.
 As for the Japanese? It took them years to creat an aircraft comparable to the Allies in the way of the "Niki" and KI-84. And then if they  Allies had needed them faster the F8F would have been thier to pick thier teeth with those planes.

 The fact is the ALLIES did not have the dire need for more advanced aircraft that the Axis did.  The Allies whooped butt with 1942-1943 (Spit, P-51 and P-47) aircraft against 1944 (ME-109K, ME-262, ME-163, 190-D9) aircraft. Plain and simple. It's fact, not fiction.
 Had the Allies been forced to put into production the protoypes or advance the production of other aircraft for the same reasons the Axis had to, then you would have seen even better aircraft than the P-51H, P47M F7F, F2G or F8F and earlier. Put that in your saurkraut and saki and smoke it!  

 I love you historical revisionist's and fawn eyed LW worshippers.  

   - Westy

[ICEWIND]

Only thing I will say is,

Wernher von Braun the Father of the American Moon flight.
Or should I say a former German  NSDAP-Member and a SS-Sturmbannführer that got his Professor Title personally from Adolf Hitler.

[VISCONTI]

Damn, i'm sorry but i have to reply.

USA used a little bomb over Japan u remember???

Who need an F8F when P-51D fight 10 vs 1 the most part of the time???

USA production was far away from combat this is the real key of the victory.

[Westy]

 ICEWIND, too bad they let Einstein go, huh? He kept delivery man but not the guy who could build the package to be delivered  

 DUH!   Chaulk another big bright one up to the Master race.  
 
 <more rolling of the eyes>

-Westy

[F4UDOA]

Funny,

When the wunder race was bombing Poland and other countries that couldn't defend themselves and killing civilians by the boat load with A/C and Tanks that were far superior to anything n the battlefield that was a great victory for the fatherland.

But When the USA comes all the way across the Atlantic in ships and delivers all of these comprable troops, A/C and Tanks that's being out numbered 10 to 1? If Uncle Adolf wanted to pick a fight with the USA he should of thought about building a Navy before he attacked the Brits, instead of releying on submarines to sink merchant vessels. My favorite move was hiding the Bismark and Turpitz for almost the entire war.

BTW, much of the German liquid propulsion technology was purchased from an American civilian prior to the start of WW2. It gave old Warner a little head start with things.

Visconti,

Italy had quite the Navy at the begging of WW2. How come they didn't bombard the US coastline or launch aircraft to bomb American cities? I don't know but I think I read something about the new Italian Navy building all glass bottom boats. I wonder why that is??

FYI, can you name one Country that the
Third Reich actually defeated during WW2 that would have been considered a modern Nation(Other than the French for obvious reasons)??

Later
F4UDOA

[Fishu]

Americans paid royalties for German weapon companies for a long time before first world war of their M1903 rifle  
Mechanics of M1903 were too closely from german Mauser Karabiner 98 rifle.

I like Italian BBs in Great Naval Battles IV, but I dislike their smaller boats alot.. too small and too few guns compared to US or Germans.

[VISCONTI]

Hehehe F4UDOA,

if you can immagine how stupid was Italy in WW2 you can laugh for years  
(fortunately)


Anyway, technology is a things, how this technology is used is another things.

V1 and V2, this is technology.

Radar (Germany and UK) this is a very interesting technology war.


Look at Berlin, Russian soldiers captured that city, Russian have not technology ready to fight but they did.


In our PC we have the same plug used in V2 rocket  .

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
My favorite move was hiding the Bismark and Turpitz for almost the entire war.

Ummm...you should probably check that fact again.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Yeager]

I dont care at all about this.

In the fall of 1945, both Germany and Japan were completely destroyed.  I mean devastated, absolutely bellybutton kicked down in the dirt.

Thanks again to the Allied powers.

I will also remind the kiddies that the Allied powers demonstrated unbeleivable nads by spending billions upon billions rebuilding these absolutely devastated nations.

Today, both Germany and Japan are successfull (more or less) because of the Allied Powers.

Blah blah blah.......

Yeager

[ICEWIND]

 I am not talking about Racial or Ideological issues. I just find it fascinating under what bad  conditions high end Technology was developed.

But I am realistic to see for what purpose all this Technology was developed and what it was trying to preserve.

 

[Minotaur]

The fate of the Axis was sealed the day that Pearl Harbor was attacked and the US declared war.  

You can't expect a country with the industrial base as vast as that the US to be an easy victim, such as the Chinees, the Danes or the Africans.  You can't expect that industrial base to weaken in wartime unless you attack it.  The axis could not do so with any effect.

Germany, for its part, made several very crucial mistakes of which one was decisive.  Based upon their prior  easy successes they got greedy, and saw weakness where there was strength.  The attack on Russia.   A bad move, as history callously points out.  This resulted in a two front war against countries with a much larger population and industrial base.

Funny the way things get looked at so many years later.  

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Hind tit suckin whiners. Begone with yah!"
Hangtime

[Naso]

Whooopeee !!!

Old beautiful revisionist flamefest !!!  

(Grab a popcorn pack, a beer, and sit)

 

[LLv34_Snefens]

US didn't declare any war Mino.  
Hitler declared war on the US 11th December which came as a relief to Roosevelt since the opposition in the congress wouldn't support a declaration of war against a country that really hadn't done anything directly to the US, other than be in a pact with Japan.

They didn't declare war on Japan either. Half an hour after the attack on Pearl Harbour had begun Roosevelt was handed a reply on a compromise suggestion made by the US on the 26th Nov which contained an official declaration of war. It was to have been given just as the attack started, so diplomatic the attack would have been legitimit.

------------------
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34

[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 10-26-2000).]

[Dowding]

Minotaur - Germany's attack on Russia was pre-emptive. Most historians agree that Stalin expected war (probably around 1944), and there is some evidence to suggest Russia was preparing an offensive that would begin as early as 1942.

I find all this talk of 'look how advanced the Luftwaffe was' and 'the Germans were far superior to the Allies' a little irrelevant. There aren't many wars fought to a Hollywood script, where the 'bad-guy' and 'good-guy' are so obvious, but WW2 is definitely a conflict where the 'good' and 'bad' combatants are easily discernible to everyone (except Nazi apologists).

I couldn't really give rat's bellybutton about the superiority of German weapons - the right side triumphed in the end, and I would defy anyone to try and explain to me how the world would be better off if the Germans or Japanese had succeeded in their odious objectives.

So there.