Author Topic: Duel of the Spits  (Read 1756 times)

Offline Angus

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 08:41:20 AM »
hehe  :devil
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 10:11:09 AM »
There is no justification for the Spitfire Mk XIV being perked while the Bf109K-4 is not.  Almost everything you can say about one, you can say about the other.

Making the argument that the 14 should be unperked by citing the K4 is a losing battle.

Ignoring the rest, a single category alone separates usability; armament.  Hizzokkas and Browning Turbolasers are both infinitely easier to deploy than a large, heavy potato that an MLB catcher could snag with a mitt.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 10:57:46 AM »
Making the argument that the 14 should be unperked by citing the K4 is a losing battle.

Ignoring the rest, a single category alone separates usability; armament.  Hizzokkas and Browning Turbolasers are both infinitely easier to deploy than a large, heavy potato that an MLB catcher could snag with a mitt.
Not when your aircraft basically refuses to stay pointing where you want it too and you are fighting your own aircraft as much as the enemy's.
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Offline Baumer

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2009, 11:26:44 AM »
I've been flying the XIV a bit this month because of all the threads about it. I really don't understand what the handling issues are that some people are complaining about. Other than having to deal with the engine torque going the "Proper British" direction, everything else is just fine. The only other thing I can think of, is it "seems" to need more frequent trim adjustments than other Spit's but I'm not a Spitfire expert either.

All in all I'd agree that the Ta 152 is much more difficult to get maximum performance out of, than the Spit 14. And with 15 kills to 1 death this month, I can see why it's perked. Chasing down P-51's, La-7's, and Bf 109K's is a pretty strong reason for it to be at least slightly perked.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2009, 12:21:02 PM »
Not when your aircraft basically refuses to stay pointing where you want it too and you are fighting your own aircraft as much as the enemy's.

Sorry - we're talking about the K4 then?

Not exactly a model for gun platform stability.

The only difference between the 14 and the K4, in terms of engine-related instability, is the direction of the torque.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2009, 02:40:37 PM »
Sorry - we're talking about the K4 then?

Not exactly a model for gun platform stability.

The only difference between the 14 and the K4, in terms of engine-related instability, is the direction of the torque.
In my experience, the K-4 flys like it is on rails compared to the Mk XIV.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2009, 02:48:52 PM »
In my experience, the K-4 flys like it is on rails compared to the Mk XIV.

+1

The K-4 is a way better gun platform. Actually most planes are, when compared to the Spit XiV. Unless your're bouncing cons in a straight line, the XIV tends to wobble all around. It needs some sensitive hands at the stick ;)
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 08:17:57 AM »
Well then I must have the softest hands in the business because I dont find the 14 to be a troublesome platform at all.

Offline BnZs

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Re: Duel of the Spits
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 01:14:31 PM »
If we think of ourselves as real pilots in a real war, where concern #1 for the pilot is to not die, and attrition of enemy pilots is a factor, then kill/loss ratios become paramount and a the single greatest factor in having a positive kill/loss ratio is the ability to engage when you wish and disengage when you don't, IOW, speed. By that standard, the SpitXIV would be clearly superior to the SpitXVI.

However, we are not real pilots in a real war with real objectives, we are playing a game for fun. Attrition is meaningless in the MA, K/D ratio is only one of several factors a fighter score is based on, and flying in such a way as to possibly a get a kill every once in awhile while insuring RTB is no one's, or at least very few people's idea of fun.

So, while the SpitXIV obviously has the potential to maintain a higher k/d than the SpitXVI because of its speed, the SpitXVI pilot, blessed with superior turn, superior roll, and superior handling, clearly has the potential to kill more often (higher k/t), more times per sortie (higher k/s), probably hit what he aims at more often (higher %), and will do so with more ease (higher "fun" factor).

So, if we reject the fallacy of judging the airplanes as if we were flying a hit-in-run style in a real war with kill/loss ratio as the primary goal and attrition as a factor, it becomes far less clear which is the superior MA airplane.
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