Author Topic: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!  (Read 24784 times)

Offline RumbleB

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #315 on: June 12, 2009, 09:57:31 PM »
Yea I call it the 3 click triangle sequence of quit login etc.

Offline SlapShot

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #316 on: June 12, 2009, 10:13:33 PM »
First of all I want two LW arenas.  I just don't want them to be capped.  Plain and simple.

2 arenas + no cap = 1 arena = slum all over again ... plain and simple.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #317 on: June 12, 2009, 10:23:59 PM »
There MUST be a cap. The owner and designer of the game has said it is so and will not change back due to it being a business decision. Now we ALL MUST agree with this because it has been said that that is how it's going to be, period.

As for HOW the caps work, is where the suggestions can come into play. Yes, midday is a bit of a problem, tho it may settle down some as the school kids start logging in earlier. (not sure if you think THAT is a good thing  :D ) The problem comes in when the caps are turned on, and the Euro folk start signing off for the night. It takes an hour or two for the arena numbers to settle back down.

The easiest solution is to make it so that you can't do the "3 click triangle sequence" to quote RumbleB. If people would just log into the lower numbered arena the numbers would settle down much quicker. However, due to the fascination  :rolleyes: most people have with the orange arena this is never going to happen.

What other way would you think to handle the population in 2 arenas?

Offline DamnedRen

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #318 on: June 12, 2009, 10:42:45 PM »
It's not about morons or playing the game wrong, it's about the simple fact that the game SUCKED back when everyone was piled into a single arena. Were you there back then?  If you were one of the few that did have fun, it still doesn't make for a realistic business decision.  "Your" (just for the sake of the argument here) vision of fun was a vision that led to no game, which obviously equates to the least fun outcome of any alternative.

I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.


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Misleading evidence - This one's elementary.  Your evidence that HT is wrong when he quotes (dunno how much more primary an evidence you could ask for) population history direct from the server files, is a single data point from all the population history data points, and of all things it's a data point as exceptional and therefore unrepresentative as e.g. quoting this wednesday's numbers as a sign that something's wrong with the servers in general.  Your supporting evidence is a screenshot from right after an arena reset.

I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron. Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
 

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The maker vs joe lambda - Read what you want into it.. My point is that you can't keep much credibility when you argue the above against someone who isn't just a player but whose job it is to make the game.. Who has 10+ years of experience at it.. Etc.

Probably a lot closer to 15+ years since he goes all the way back to DOS AW days. No one has ever said HiTech hasn't made a great game. I don't know how much he's played lately nor do I care. It's his game.  Kinda makes ya wonder if he has to wait to log into the Big O? :) Naw.

Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D

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Offline Wingnutt

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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #320 on: June 13, 2009, 12:09:06 AM »
There MUST be a cap. The owner and designer of the game has said it is so and will not change back due to it being a business decision. Now we ALL MUST agree with this because it has been said that that is how it's going to be, period.

 :rofl  "We ALL MUST agree."




Offline moot

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #321 on: June 13, 2009, 02:26:56 AM »
You are wrong about this m00t.  I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
I'm heading to bed so I'll answer just this one.  Why is it that the more concise and transparently and fairly you argue things, the more it's taken as ruffled feathers? It's like the only way to get straight arguments out of people is to sandbag them.
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #322 on: June 13, 2009, 02:59:42 AM »
I'm heading to bed so I'll answer just this one.  Why is it that the more concise and transparently and fairly you argue things, the more it's taken as ruffled feathers? It's like the only way to get straight arguments out of people is to sandbag them.

Concise and transparent?  Maybe its your tailfeathers that have been most disheveled by your beak.

Offline moot

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #323 on: June 13, 2009, 03:56:55 AM »
Assi - If you're going to BS, be upfront with it.  Just say what's on your mind.  Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind.


I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.
FUDGE.  Drop the act.  Whether you're "offended" that HT poked fun at some ridiculous aspect of your argument is irrelevent to whether it's true or false.  The fact is that subscriptions dropped and gameplay quality fell with the rising numbers (past 500 or so) in a single arena.  That you had fun means nothing...  I have fun doing stuff that pretty much all other players find masochistic.. I fly into furballs with one of the very worst turning planes and try to stall fight my way out of it.. Zero margin of error. You and I might "know" what the essence of real dogfighting is, but we're certainly no guarantee of what the rest, the bulk of the players want.  Like I said, no subscriptions to support AH, no AH.  Business is business.  I'm certainly not going to use my single pov of what's fun for me as representative of what all players should want.

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I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron.

More fudge. Put down the freakin violins for a minute.  Your "side" of the argument got called a moron.. Maybe it's because there's so many morons on "your side", not because you're necessarily a moron yourself?  HT makes his point by poking fun at your argument and you use that as an argument.. You know better than this.
And I'm not brown noser BTW.. There's plenty of things I absolutely loathe about the game.

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Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
You're too inflexible.. The fact is that gameplay suffered from too many players crammed into a single arena.  Titanic Tuesday is only as "good" as it is because it happens only once a week, instead of everyday.  Even if we took your argument and went with it - that an unrestricted single arena was more fun for you - subscription numbers would still mean that AH was on the way to bankruptcy.  Is that what you're arguing for?
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Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D
Brown nosers and morons, what a perfectly accurate depiction of reality.
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Offline moot

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #324 on: June 13, 2009, 04:06:29 AM »
You are wrong about this m00t.  I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
You haven't ruffled jack toejam.  If you can't compute that, I can't help ya.

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First of all I want two LW arenas.  I just don't want them to be capped.  Plain and simple.
One arena would fill. Back to square one - a single slum arena.  You can't rely on players to not make a slum out of it anymore than you can rely on them to stay out of tactically and strategically inconsequential 1:1s, nor to not horde undefended bases instead of diverting their misshun horde to separate bases on the frontlines, nor to learn ACM instead of being yank&bank stick-stirring dweebs, nor to have proper sportsmanship and not dive bomb & bail formations, etc etc etc.  You don't want the arenas to be capped because your squaddies are too irresponsible to join the lower number arena so that you could join them too. 

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HT's reply implied that I thought the two arenas were in some way different and thats why I called one "crappy".
I replied that I was referrring to it as crappy because it had only 40 players in it.
And the fault in HT's reply is?

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Also, Chappy's screenshot at the beggining of this post may have been made after an arena reset, but mine wasn't.  It was made in the middle of the day.  Log on at 11:30 to 12:30 and this is common.  The arena that is actually at a decent # gets reduced when the cap hits untill you have 2 arenas w/ 100 players. 

It happens every day.

And thats why people do this...
(Image removed from quote.)
Wanna know what I think?  Players should be let in like (IIRC) Grizz suggested.  Let them into the arena only if they're willing to join as the outnumbered country.  Make them pay the 1 hour restriction if joining means they have to switch country from their last login's country.  Anything else is just furthering the same crapola that was going on back in the single arena days.
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #325 on: June 13, 2009, 04:09:06 AM »
I'm heading to bed

You didnt get enough sleep.  :D

Offline moot

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #326 on: June 13, 2009, 04:11:54 AM »
She came back for seconds and after that I (somehow) decided to get very hosed to keep me up thru the night and day so I don't jack up my schedule.  I'm a obsessive compulse workaholic and life long insomniac.  Without a strict schedule and exercise everything goes out of whack.
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #327 on: June 13, 2009, 04:13:07 AM »
I hear ya on that m00t.  :rock

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #328 on: June 13, 2009, 06:49:09 AM »
The arena cap is a handicap at times when there are too few players to justify the cap.

If the arena cap would work in this way:

Fill one arena untill it reaches the magic 400 player limit.
Once limit is reached, split the arena to two equal 200 player maps.
Squad members and members within the same channel v discussion will be kept on the same server during the split. No squad is big enough to have over 50 players at given time on one country.

End result: numbers split but players notice no difference in gameplay as long as the map is the same and the split happens equally in rook/bish/knit. Only friends that you fly with matter, enemy can change.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!
« Reply #329 on: June 13, 2009, 07:35:05 AM »
The arena cap is a handicap at times when there are too few players to justify the cap.

If the arena cap would work in this way:

Fill one arena untill it reaches the magic 400 player limit.
Once limit is reached, split the arena to two equal 200 player maps.
Squad members and members within the same channel v discussion will be kept on the same server during the split. No squad is big enough to have over 50 players at given time on one country.

End result: numbers split but players notice no difference in gameplay as long as the map is the same and the split happens equally in rook/bish/knit. Only friends that you fly with matter, enemy can change.


Its a great idea, but how would you/the game decide WHICH 200 get moved out to the other arena? There would be people in mid flight, squads in ops, individuals in missions together, people in that perfect spawn camping position finally!   :D Can you imagine the crys if you got dumped out of what you were doing to populate the 2nd arena.


I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.


I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron. Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
 

Probably a lot closer to 15+ years since he goes all the way back to DOS AW days. No one has ever said HiTech hasn't made a great game. I don't know how much he's played lately nor do I care. It's his game.  Kinda makes ya wonder if he has to wait to log into the Big O? :) Naw.

Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D

CM#2


There is a bunch of evidence, you either don't want to look at it, or you don't want to accept it. HT has said why the arenas had to be split. HT has said that there will never be just one arena again. While you may have been having fun in the "singe arena" set-up the majority where not, and many where leaving....which is bad for a company that is based on those subscriptions. The key word here is "majority". It is unimportant what any single person wants or believes.... well except for HT  :D To you or I it's a game, to HT its his livelihood.

So, for his business to prosper he has to have two main arenas, no two ways about it. The problem arises from the "herd" mentality of all humans. Sure more people want to be in orange, but only because that is where the most people are.... more targets, or better protection in hordes, which ever "reason" you want to use, it's only because that is where most of the people are. If you remember back when the new arenas first happened (when they first opened up EW, MW, and a single LW) EVERYBODY was in EW. Why? because it was the arena at the top of the list and was the default selection when you logged on. People either didn't look to change arenas, or when they did they saw the majority of the players where in that arena and so MUST join them.

So human nature says we MUST play in one arena, HTC says we MUST not. All that is left is to figure out a way to EVENLY split the arena population, so we have dynamic caps. HT has said that if someone can come up with a better way of doing it, he'll look at it. Sure he shoots down a lot of ideas on these boards, but I trust that he has server data to back up his position, where we only have speculation. I'm more inclined to believe what he has to say ...about the game.. :D than anyone else.