Author Topic: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer  (Read 1129 times)

Offline bustr

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Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« on: May 04, 2009, 10:24:10 AM »
http://www.e3gazette.com/2008/10/explaining-our-us-tax-system-with-beer.html

Explaining Our U.S. Tax System with Beer

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beers by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.'

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to drink for free, but once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right,"exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important....they didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics University of Georgia
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Sabre

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 10:42:49 AM »
So true.  Right now, according to the IRS, the top 50% of wage earners in the US pay approximately 96% of the taxes.  The top 10% pay something like 36% of the taxes.  Something like a third (and growing) pay no federal income taxes at all.  So naturally anything labeled a "tax cut" will always return more money to the wealthy, unless it is in fact a tax credit (a.k.a. redistribution of wealth).  That's why I couldn't help but laugh when one of the candidates last year claimed he was going to give a tax cut to 95% of Americans.  The math don't add up.
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Offline Marauding Conan

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 12:04:02 PM »
This is far too simplistic to take seriously.

http://www.e3gazette.com/2008/10/explaining-our-us-tax-system-with-beer.html

Explaining Our U.S. Tax System with Beer

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beers by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.'

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to drink for free, but once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right,"exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important....they didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics University of Georgia


Offline bustr

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 01:49:37 PM »
This is far too simplistic to take seriously.


You ever been hired by a poor man?
You ever enjoyed paying taxes while working for yourself?
You ever enjoyed paying taxes PERIOD?

If not, if I make more money and pay more taxes, I expect more back from tax brakes. After all I enjoyed expending the time and energy to earn that level of money in the first place.

You could do the tax and beer analogy with college grade point averages. You sound educated and nuanced.

At the end of every college undergrad year at all government funded institutions of higher education all of the 3.5-4.0 gpa students including yourself are dinged down to 3.0 to bring up as many students below them that can be upgraded to 3.0. The purpose of this is to insure a fair outcome and to fill as many seats as possible in the graduate and post graduate programs. The same process will be repeated concurently at the graduate and post graduate levels to maintain the fair outcome.

All students in the undergrad programs who cannot maintain a passing gpa will be issued an associate degree for showing up. All in the spirit of a fair outcome. All students who cannot maintain the gpa to stay in the schools at any level will have unlimited attempts to start over while students with 3.5-4.0 gpa will contiue to give up points to the lower gpa students to help move them forward.

What happens if the 3.5-4.0 gpa students transfer to privately funded colleges and universities?

It is a simple task to make things complex, it is complex task to make them simple. OR Your complex ceiling is another mans simple floor.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Motherland

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 02:19:31 PM »
Those poor rich people.

Offline Marauding Conan

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 02:28:09 PM »
Those poor rich people.

Yeah, I know,  :cry

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 02:30:36 PM »
Read a little bit of Keynes and you'll understand that the justification for the inequity you describe is the goal of full employment.
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Offline BigPlay

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 03:16:44 PM »
Those poor rich people.


Yup, where would you be without them. Unemployed ?

Offline wrag

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 03:22:29 PM »
Read a little bit of Keynes and you'll understand that the justification for the inequity you describe is the goal of full employment.

Austrian methods shoots it down!
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Motherland

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 03:44:00 PM »

Yup, where would you be without them. Unemployed ?
Where would they be without us?

Offline BigPlay

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 04:06:11 PM »
Where would they be without us?

retired.

Offline Sabre

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2009, 04:30:34 PM »
Those poor rich people.

The point of the example was not to engender sympathy for the rich man, but rather to warn against beating the drum of class warefare to loudly.  Likewise, the point of the constitution is not to insure equal outcomes, but equal opportunity. 

As for

Quote
Read a little bit of Keynes and you'll understand that the justification for the inequity you describe is the goal of full employment.

I must admit that I fail to see how redistribution of wealth from those that create it to those who did not earn it contributes to full employment.  This beer example is indeed simple when it compared to the million pages of the US tax code; however, it suffices to get the point across.  If you're going to tax "progressively", than any tax cuts should by all definitions of fairness be returned "progressively".
Sabre
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Offline eagl

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2009, 04:53:31 PM »
See Rule #14
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 03:28:58 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline bustr

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2009, 04:56:37 PM »
See Rule #14
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 03:28:48 PM by Skuzzy »
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Explaining our U.S. Tax System with Beer
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2009, 05:50:35 PM »
See Rule #14
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 03:29:46 PM by Skuzzy »
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