Living forever

[BnZs]

1st world technology is the only thing that has ever allowed anyone to live at any level *other* than the savage.

If it really ever comes down to fighting for survival, and the 1st world has the technological edge to take what it needs and win, then you should praise God for that fact, not decry it. Just between you and me, being the lion is better than being the gazelle.

Furthermore, Westerners are entirely soft-hearted AND soft-headed enough to spend their blood and money for the "betterment" of recalitrants who would at best still be at the late Neolithic level without the West.

Ah hell, Kipling said it better than I can:

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

And boys right here in 2009 *still* getting maimed in Iraq for that crapulent Quixotic quest, while people sit at home and laud the savage.

Who said most people (i.e. voters) have any sense? People are selfish and will overwhelmingly vote accordingly. The starving part comes later, far beyond the attention span of your average Joe, and the 1st world nation are the last to suffer.



No, they commit mass murder first.

When the 1st world goes hungry we will take whatever we need from the 3rd world who has no defense against our military and technologically superiority. And we won't care one bit; why? Because we, the enlightened western societies are wonderful, friendly people as long as our bellies are full and our toys are working. But take away our creature comforts, deprive us of food, security, put our lives in jeopardy and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people become as nasty and as violent as the most blood thirsty savage.

Shielded from the brutality by our media corporations and governments we won't care when we murder the 3rd world; we'll even convince ourselves that we're doing them a favor by "spreading democracy" or "bringing stability to the region" or some other fake high ideal. The western world is already dependent on food imports from the 3rd world, and when the shortage gets critical we won't care about the suffering of others... Not one bit.

[Die Hard]

BnZs, while running the risk of turning this into a political debate, Iraq was not invaded to benefit the Iraqis. Iraq was invaded for our own benefit (not to steal their oil, but to make it available and at an affordable price), and our media corporations and government are shielding us from the brutality. The media is even prohibited from showing pictures of American caskets returning from Iraq/Afghanistan. Imagine that: Media censorship in America, the "Bastion of Liberty".

If we are willing to invade a nation just to keep our SUVs running, imagine what we'll be willing to do when food prices rocket and people start going hungry.

[BnZs]

The Iraq war makes absolutely no sense as "blood for oil". The blood to oil ratio is thus to far is exceedingly poor. Billions of barrels of oil could have been bought with the money we've poured into Iraq. I would be RELIEVED if we had really gone to Iraq to seize oil, like Vikings ransacking a monastery for golden chalices and candlesticks, because it would mean our government isn't quite as evil, idiotic, and insane as it really is.

BnZs, while running the risk of turning this into a political debate, Iraq was not invaded to benefit the Iraqis. Iraq was invaded for our own benefit (not to steal their oil, but to make it available and at an affordable price), and our media corporations and government are shielding us from the brutality. The media is even prohibited from showing pictures of American caskets returning from Iraq/Afghanistan. Imagine that: Media censorship in America, the "Bastion of Liberty".

If we are willing to invade a nation just to keep our SUVs running, imagine what we'll be willing to do when food prices rocket and people start going hungry.

[Die Hard]

The Iraq war makes absolutely no sense as "blood for oil". The blood to oil ratio is thus to far is exceedingly poor.

You're right of course. However, I don't think the current situation is anything like what was planned. There were many reasons for invading Iraq, but when asked why Iraq and not North Korea Mr. Wolfowitz answered "the country swims on a sea of oil", and that should make it clear to anyone what the overriding reason was.

But let's not continue this line of discussion, lest we invoke the wrath of Skuzzy.

[mechanic]

Billions of barrels of oil could have been bought with the money we've poured into Iraq.

No sane government would hand over billions of dollars to their enemy when shooting them costs the price of a bullet.
 

[Guppy35]

Who said most people (i.e. voters) have any sense? People are selfish and will overwhelmingly vote accordingly. The starving part comes later, far beyond the attention span of your average Joe, and the 1st world nation are the last to suffer.

No, they commit mass murder first.

When the 1st world goes hungry we will take whatever we need from the 3rd world who has no defense against our military and technologically superiority. And we won't care one bit; why? Because we, the enlightened western societies are wonderful, friendly people as long as our bellies are full and our toys are working. But take away our creature comforts, deprive us of food, security, put our lives in jeopardy and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people become as nasty and as violent as the most blood thirsty savage.

Shielded from the brutality by our media corporations and governments we won't care when we murder the 3rd world; we'll even convince ourselves that we're doing them a favor by "spreading democracy" or "bringing stability to the region" or some other fake high ideal. The western world is already dependent on food imports from the 3rd world, and when the shortage gets critical we won't care about the suffering of others... Not one bit.

The sad part is there is truth in this.  Last night about 4 in the morning I was feeding my little guy Matthew.  My wife brought him home from Liberia where she found him in a closet where  he'd been abandoned.  She was volunteering as a nurse at the hospital there.  He'd fallen asleep and I was looking at him and was overwhelmed a bit by how beautiful he is despite his crooked little upper lip.  He'd been born with a bi-lateral cleft pallet and lip and his birth parents couldn't care for him. 

He makes me think about this stuff a lot though.  He's such a spark of life, and such a gift, yet we don't really have much desire to do anything about the rest of those little sparks out there dying around the world for lack of food.  They're not our responsibility or so we say.  As much as I'd like to be able to say we're doing our part with giving Matthew a chance, it does make me feel more responsible for the others out there.  We do for the most part sit around fat dumb and happy not thinking about the rest of us.

It did remind me that we need to find a way to feed, educate and give everyone a chance at a good life before we can really talk about extending our much.  I don't know that the world really wants to do that however.

[moot]

That's been my impression too, when I came back to north america after 4 years in the third world.  Seeing people with so many untapped resources available, (this is gonna sound bigotted but take it for what it's worth..) kids wasting their time aimlessly walking around with pants around their knees and the whole goth self-mutilation thing, people bickering and fussing over the tritest most inane things.. Just disgusting. In the distasteful sense, not physically ill.

[Die Hard]

Yeah, it puts things in perspective.