FR-1

[Westy]

FW-190:

 Development began in 1938-39. The prototype was completed in the late spring of 1939, got the registration number D-OPZE and after introductory ground tests, flew for the first time on June 1, 1939 with Hans Sander, chief test pilot in the Focke-Wulf Company at the controls.

 F4U:
 Development of the F4U began in 1938. The prototype first flew in May 1940

 

 Ram, you are technically right only in the fact that the first version of the FW-190 flew before the F4U. The rest, about it being a gleam on someone skethc,  is typical pro-Luftwaffle babble.
 
   -Westy

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Westy:


 Ram, you are technically right only in the fact that the first version of the FW-190 flew before the F4U. The rest, about it being a gleam on someone skethc,  is typical pro-Luftwaffle babble.
 
   -Westy

I only state that while the V1 prototype of the Fw190 was flying, the Hog was only a trace on a paper   and I was right on it.

Of course I dont say anything else. Its true that I have read that F8F was influenced by Fw190, and the Hawker fury...well you only need to take a look at it  .

BTW I dont say that the Hog was the smallest airframe possible for that engine...the engine was big, true...but the plane is VERY big too, and with a quite big wing.  

[M.C.202]

RAM said:
> Well then check your history books again, because while the Hog was only a pencil
> trace on a paper, the Fw190V1 was already
flying.
> So, less laughter, man. Less laughter

This is fun, rather than squeaking over what mid/late '45 bird should be allowed,
we are going early :-)

After all the FW 190 was a copy of the Curtis 75 (1935),Macchi M.C.200 (1937), the Ki-27
(1936, a bird I would LOVE to see modeled for game use), and the Fokker D.XXI  (1936) :-)

No laughter, but lots of  :-)'s

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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by M.C.202:

After all the FW 190 was a copy of the Curtis 75 (1935),Macchi M.C.200 (1937), the Ki-27
(1936, a bird I would LOVE to see modeled for game use), and the Fokker D.XXI  (1936) :-)

Check your books too, MC   . Fw190A was originally intended (its first idea was) to be a fighter plane with an inline engine, but the already pressed DB line couldn't afford to supply engines to another model.

So, the 190 was born with a radial engine instead an inline one. The first election was to be a BMW132, but later changed to the BMW801 cuz it was seen that a bigger development was possible with the 801.

The engine installation was a wonder of the engineering of the time. It was compact, light and very very succesfull. The only problem was serious heating in the aft bank of cylinders that only was solved in the A-1 version, with a new blower to cool that bank of cylinders. So far, nothing to do with MC200, Curtiss Hawk ,Fokkers or Nates. In fact the only features that those planes shared was the radial engine, nnothing else.

Fw190 was also the first "electric" fighter plane of the world. Weapons, wheels, flaps, etc were all controlled by electric controls. Novel, too was the "Kommandogėrat", a mechanical computer that controlled propeller pitch, mixture and engine RPMs, so the pilot had only to select a power setting and concentrate on flying and fighting.

In fact the engine was so vastly advanced for its time that the Luftwaffe's mechanics had some problems at the start because they had to maintain such an advanced engine.

So...MC202...please...can you tell me WHAT has the Fw190 in common with curtiss hawk, Nate or MC200?...because apart of a radial engine (And a much better one than any on those planes)...I see none  

another thing ,that may have lead you to an error, its that RAF pilots first reported the Fw190A as a Curtiss Hawk with german markings...

Uh, yeah, forgot to say...Infalible british intelligence had NO clue of LW's new radial engined fighter plane until the first Spitfire Vs fell burning over the channel  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-31-2000).]

[Pongo]

Forget I joked about the ryan being based on the 190..
Man you guys have serios problems.

[Karnak]

But lets not forget that those Spitfire MkVs were based on the Fw190...

Sisu
-Karnak

[juzz]

Then the Germans tested a DB 605 in a captured Spitfire Mk V and turned it into the Me 109G.

[M.C.202]

RAM said:
> Check your books too, MC . Fw190A was originally intended (its first idea was) to
> be a fighter plane with an inline engine, but the already pressed DB line couldn't
> afford to supply engines to another model.

Nope, and I quote:

...in that he also submitted a proposal for a
fighter using the powerful 18 cylinder two row
radial air-cooled engine then being bench-run
by BMW, the BMW 139.

So no inline engine was planned. Japan however did do that with the Ki61/ki100.

M.C.200 radial to M.C.202 inline engine swap was a 1940 switch :-)


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M.C.202
Dino in Reno



[This message has been edited by M.C.202 (edited 10-31-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

Ram is wrong alot... like in that he thinks the Ta-152A and 190-D9 are the same aircraft.  Still, you've got to admire his single-minded dedication to the Axis cause.  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Toad]

Hold everything!

I just found a book that says the Wright Flyer was based on the FW-190!

Will try to scan the pages for yas!

   

------------------
Toad

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

-William Pitt

[M.C.202]

SnakeEyes said:
> Ram is wrong alot... like in that he thinks the Ta-152A and 190-D9 are the same aircraft.
>  Still, you've got to admire his single-minded dedication to the Axis cause.

Darn it, he was right about the burn-out rate for the Italian BB main guns though :-(
I think he is intrested in the info though, and will at least read what you say.

Not like me at all......  :-)



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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
Ram is wrong alot... like in that he thinks the Ta-152A and 190-D9 are the same aircraft.  Still, you've got to admire his single-minded dedication to the Axis cause.    

Quote from "jane's fighting aircraft of WWII"

 "when the so-called "long nosed Fw 190" (see focke-wulf Fw190D9) Had been proved to be successful, Professor kurt tank redesignated this aircraft the Ta152A. Structurally there was little difference between the Ta 152A and its predecessor. The nose of the aircraft was cleaned up t ogive a smoother fuselage top line and hydraulic instead of electrical operation was used for landing gear and Flaps".

Ok, give me then a smoother and more aerodinamical Fw190D9, with MW50 and hidraulically operadted gear and flaps  

Ta152A and Fw190D9 are bassically the same aircraft. And I remember reading somewhere (Dont remember where ,tho) that the RLM changed the Fw190D9's name to Ta152A to honor Kurt Tank.

Maybe that last affirmation isn't true, but you read the quote saying that Ta152A and Fw190D9 have very little difference...didnt you?  

M.C.202: read my posts again, I didnt say the Fw190 was DESIGNED as an inline engined plane, I said that the FIRST idea of the Fw was to be engined by an inline engine, and that is a fact. When it was realized that it wasn't possible to create another fighter with an inline engine, Kurt Tank started work on a radial engined one...but that was before designing it  

You quote:
in that he also submitted a proposal for a
fighter using the powerful 18 cylinder two row
radial air-cooled engine then being bench-run
by BMW, the BMW 139.


I admit I made a mistake, BMW132 was a 800hp engine (mistook the number), the original BMW intended for the 190 was, as you say, the BMW139, and then changed to BMW801. But...look where you read those things, MC202...because that quote is COMPLETELY wrong.

 First, because the BMW139 (And later the BMW801) was a 14-cylinder engine. not 18.

Second, Because BMW139 was in the eve of its development, and the BMW801 WAS the bench-run, not the 139.

Care to tell me in wich magazine did you read that?   (j/k)




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-01-2000).]

[RAM]

BTW I'm still waiting for you to tell me wich were the things that Fw190 copied from Fokker XXI, MC200, Nate and Curtiss Hawk

 
 

[-lynx-]

 

BTW I'm still waiting for you to tell me wich were the things that Fw190 copied from Fokker XXI, MC200, Nate and Curtiss Hawk

This is so easy RAM - almost like taking a candy from a baby:

- being able to fly;
- radial engine;
- 2 wings;
- 1 tail section;
- radial engine...

Do I need to go on or you got the picture already? The whole "190 is the father of all fighters" thing is ridiculous beyond all reason.

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lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[SnakeEyes]

What are you gonna believe, Deitmar Harmann's book, or Jane's?  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=