Major complaint....

[Shifty]

We ran into these guys last night.



They seemed to have no problem with anything.
Nice job JG-2 we took quite a thumping from you.
<S>

If I had a complaint it would be I hope HTC gives us a squelchable range channel one day.
There seems to be an increase in squads using range channel to carry out every switch of a fuel tank, arming of a gun,
tightening of formation, manifold pressure, flap setting, check of fuel status or scratch of their a**  it went on and on and on.
Do it on your squad vox guys my ears were bleeding by the time we got over France getting shot down was merciful.

[JunkyII]

We ran into these guys last night.

(Image removed from quote.)

They seemed to have no problem with anything.
Nice job JG-2 we took quite a thumping from you.
<S>

If I had a complaint it would be I hope HTC gives us a squelchable range channel one day.
There seems to be an increase in squads using range channel to carry out every switch of a fuel tank, arming of a gun,
tightening of formation, manifold pressure, flap setting, check of fuel status or scratch of their a**  it went on and on and on.
Do it on your squad vox guys my ears were bleeding by the time we got over France getting shot down was merciful.

<S> I was with JG-2 we thought it was actually a very good fight but 38s could keep up in the dives with us but at that alt its hard to go vertical on anyone.

[Anaxogoras]

JG11 were engaged by no less than 25 P47s co alt at 28-30k.

You guys had about 2k ft on us.

I agree that the 32 aircraft visibility limit is a problem, but don't think much can be done about it save for the limit going to 64.

---------------------

Edit:  Someone tell JG11 not to fly so high in their 190s.  The bastages shot down 18 B-26s.

[DrDea]

My squad was in 190A5s tasked to guard a specific strat.... We had a number of other units nearby but they were spread out. We had reports of bombers, chased to no result, returned to our strat.... only to find 30+ P38s over 30k, B17s at 25k, SO MANY CONS could NOT see the B17s even though they were in the middle of a GIANT swarm of friendlies and enemies.

It was Rangoon all over again. I didn't see the B17s until I just about rammed through one of them. My wingmen are asking "where? Where?" I'm saying "My location! Right by me!" nobody saw jack.


Too many damned cons in too small a frakking area.

The game CANNOT SUPPORT THIS CRAP, please make sure the rules take this into account with how badly the allies swarm any single area. Please!


That is my major complaint. Nothing new, but STILL something folks keep forgetting. Now back to your regular programming.

  Are you telling me you couldnt see a formation of 17's??? We were escorting 26's and I could see the formation of them from outside of the 6K icon range below and behind us in clouds.
 

[oakranger]

The group of B-17 that we escort where at 22k with P-51, P-47 at 24-25 k. All cons where 25-27k.

[Dustoff2]

I'd have liked to not have to drag ourselves up to 30,000ft to try and get at LEAST an equal starting altitude. I don't really find that much fun. The numbers alse don't help when the Allies have access to formations, which really compounds that problem. VMF-251 didn't have too much trouble, but we mostly tangled with about 8-10 P-38s we pulled out from the main group to the NE of the city in 13.6. Did the Allies send one large bomber force to hit 2-3 different targets tonight?

Too bad we couldn't have actually used the truck convoys and trains as targets, make for a tactical air war as opposed to the strategic one which would have been a lot more interesting.

I too find the FSO's with an alt. restriction more enjoyable. Don't really like having to spend most of my time getting to 30k.

however, my biggest complaint is the axis Cic changing the available rearming bases at the last minute.

I have axis objective orders clearly stating the following.

AXIS ACTIVE BASES:

A33,A34,A39,A65,A67,A69,A77,A78

These bases can be used to launch from, all OOB a/c are available. Any friendly base can be used to refuel or rearm during the frame. A/c may land at frame end at any friendly base.

however, Cic limiting the rearm bases to the above mentioned active launch bases really created some confusion and conflicts. We plan well in advance our mission and take into account this information in our planning of where to rearm.

[CHAPPY]

 
It was awesome to see my squad work like a well oiled machine.
Was a great frame 1 for JG2.
Great Job JG2

AXIS
ALLIED

[PFactorDave]

I too find the FSO's with an alt. restriction more enjoyable. Don't really like having to spend most of my time getting to 30k.

however, my biggest complaint is the axis Cic changing the available rearming bases at the last minute.

I have axis objective orders clearly stating the following.

AXIS ACTIVE BASES:

A33,A34,A39,A65,A67,A69,A77,A78

These bases can be used to launch from, all OOB a/c are available. Any friendly base can be used to refuel or rearm during the frame. A/c may land at frame end at any friendly base.

however, Cic limiting the rearm bases to the above mentioned active launch bases really created some confusion and conflicts. We plan well in advance our mission and take into account this information in our planning of where to rearm.

Also to add, being forced to use the above list as land/tower bases forced me to waste the last 20 minutes of the frame just to get back to a place where I could land.  If the landing rules had been left as they were originally, I could have stayed airborne and maybe intercepted more allied aircraft on their way home.

 

[Stoney]

So, limit buffs to 22K, no formations, give Axis a reasonable chance to accomplish the primary objective (down 4 engine jobs) at an altitude where they still have some performance left.

Looking at the score, its apparent that despite the lack of any of your recommended restrictions, the Axis was able to slaughter the bombers.  Squire had to change the score for bombers.  First, the bombers can't climb much higher than 20,000 feet and make the targets by T+60.  Second, without formations, there will not be sufficient bombers to inflict enough damage on the ground targets. 

[DMBEAR]

We ran into these guys last night.

(Image removed from quote.)

They seemed to have no problem with anything.
Nice job JG-2 we took quite a thumping from you.
<S>

If I had a complaint it would be I hope HTC gives us a squelchable range channel one day.
There seems to be an increase in squads using range channel to carry out every switch of a fuel tank, arming of a gun,
tightening of formation, manifold pressure, flap setting, check of fuel status or scratch of their a**  it went on and on and on.
Do it on your squad vox guys my ears were bleeding by the time we got over France getting shot down was merciful.

  Shifty.  That was fun mixing up the sky w/ red and blue guys.

If anyone else hates the performance of the 190A5, JG2 will be happy to accept it anytime.  Sure, it was a little cranky up there 30K+.  Untill we nosed into those formations.

  all who participated

[Sloehand]

Gents.

Fighters frequently did cruise at 30K to escort.  The Jugs we were in weren't quite that high.

The A model 190 is going to have a problem above 23K.  Although I believe it's ceiling is listed in the 38K range.

What happened was close to real in the tail end of 1943 thru 1945.

LW was receiving more fighters but did not have enough Pilots and most new ones had little training (fuel shortages)

In that case we are very close to historical fact.  Face it LW, you have a tough nut to crack.

The icon problem is a challenge for sure.  But....it is equal to all.

BTW during the Scenario DGS there were more aircraft in the air.  And if I remember the LW won.

Much as I like the historical aspect, I'm not showing up to FSO to play cannon fodder so we can re-create the actual battle and outcome.  I'd like a good chance to 'change history' if I'm on the Axis side, or to 'beat the Axis even better' if I'm on the Allied side.  

Even accepting that occasionally, you're not going to see action or the reverse, you're going to be swamped by the enemy, I'm find the later happening in almost every FSO night.  If I'm in bombers, we get murdered by 2-3 fighter squadrons, if we're in fighters, were assigned as one of two squads to defend, and, like last night, have 6 A-5's to go up agains 10-12 P-51's and another hand full of P-38's.

The had so many fighters at alt when we showed up that I carried 6 P-51's on my tail all the way to the deck repeatedly, as did another squaddie.  And they still had fighters to spare covering the buffs.  There has got to be some last minute way to level the sides to the proper balance based on actual turnout, if that was in fact, part of the problem.

Overall, it dawned on me and some of my squaddies that what's happening in FSO's it's getting very, very old.  I'm sure not everyone is having the same experience, but I know I'm not alone in having this type of experience.  

Unfortunately, I can't say I have any great idea for a solution, other than several of the ideas I've read here might help the situation.

[slimmer]

  Shifty

[Stoney]

Overall, it dawned on me and some of my squaddies that what's happening in FSO's it's getting very, very old.  I'm sure not everyone is having the same experience, but I know I'm not alone in having this type of experience.  

Unfortunately, I can't say I have any great idea for a solution, other than several of the ideas I've read here might help the situation.

1.  Last night, the sides had approximately the ratio that Squire designed--48% Axis and 52% Allied.  It was around 46% Axis vs. 54% Allied.  Still, the Axis scored a major victory.

2.  The CM team can merely create the rules and balance the setup on paper.  We spend a lot of time and discussion on how to balance each and every month's setup, and how to make sure it is playable and will be fun.  Once Friday night arrives, things can happen.

3.  The CM team cannot control attendence, player execution during the frame, nor control the CIC's orders, outside of the standing FSO rules, and the special rules for that setup.  If squads show up with a low turnout, it can mess up balance and plans.  Individual squadrons acting on their own can mess up another squad's experience during FSO.  The CIC's orders can mess up another squad's experience during FSO.  If you see something in the orders that you don't like, speak up.  Give the CIC some feedback, prior to the frame.

In sum, we want every FSO to be flyable, enjoyable, and competitive each and every week.  Sometimes we realize that, and occasionally we don't.  

[Saxman]

Give the CIC some feedback, prior to the frame.

In my experience so far most CiCs are willing to listen to concerns, and even make adjustments as needed.

[PFactorDave]

Give the CIC some feedback, prior to the frame.

It would be helpful if the CiCs were a little more diligent in getting the orders out on time.  Twice in a row, the side we have been on has had to wait on the orders even though the other side got their orders out.

Maybe there should be a deadline to have orders submitted to Staff.  Then FSO staff can take a quick look and make certain they meet the rules, then send them out.  I don't know, I just get frustrated having to wait for the orders when the other side has their squads informed and planning.