Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[BnZs]

The fighter is responsible for more than 15% of the kills in the MA in a given month.

Nifty! First time I've ever heard it though. I've heard 20% of sorties before, so it apparently varies person to person.

Two questions.

1. Is this an official HTC policy, or a ballpark figure you've just thrown out?

2. Will any of the planes that have *always* been perked or were perked a long time ago ever be temporarily unperked in the MA for several tours so we can see if they can really consistently get 15% of kills in today's MA?

[Steve]

Remove the Hispano from the equation and you need to completely re-examine your road map. The only guns that really come close to equalling the Browning's combination or range, accuracy, ballistics and hitting power is the Russian 12.7mm. The advantage the Russian guns have is they do it with lighter weight, but they also experience a lot more scattering and and bullet drop, IIRC.

So yeah, saying it's "middle of the road" compared to the Hispano may be technically accurate. But that's a BIG gap with nothing in between them.

Actually I remember reading, a long time ago that the 6 .50's were considered average and the toughnesss of the 51 is consdiered average.. or mid point.

[Karnak]

Nifty! First time I've ever heard it though. I've heard 20% of sorties before, so it apparently varies person to person.

Two questions.

1. Is this an official HTC policy, or a ballpark figure you've just thrown out?

2. Will any of the planes that have *always* been perked or were perked a long time ago ever be temporarily unperked in the MA for several tours so we can see if they can really consistently get 15% of kills in today's MA?

I gave you my personal definition.  I have no idea what HTC's is.

[Karnak]

Remove the Hispano from the equation and you need to completely re-examine your road map. The only guns that really come close to equalling the Browning's combination or range, accuracy, ballistics and hitting power is the Russian 12.7mm. The advantage the Russian guns have is they do it with lighter weight, but they also experience a lot more scattering and and bullet drop, IIRC.

So yeah, saying it's "middle of the road" compared to the Hispano may be technically accurate. But that's a BIG gap with nothing in between them.

Any 20mm cannon, other than the Type 99 Model 1 or MG/FF, is superior to the Browning .50 cal as a fighter weapon in AH.

[Steve]

In fact, one unperked plane does *not* have to be the out-and-out best to the degree the SpitXVI is. Just about every other plane you can name has some great strength as a fighter, but some serious flaws to go with it. P-51? Fast, zooms well. But out-climbed by a huge portion of the plane set and out-turned by nearly all of it. F4U-1A? Fast, rolls well, turns well. Climbs and accelerates poorly though and the guns are mediocre. 109 K-4? Brilliant in performance. Not a great turner, hard to hit with gun, rotten visibility, looses control authority in dives. D9? Brilliant plane except for the fact it is almost the worst turner of the entire set. N1K? Wonderful firepower, wonderful turn, but it is well and truly slow and rolls like a pig. HurriIIC? Absolutely wonderful in every way, except it is too slow to catch a cold. Ki-84? Nearly as good as the SpitXVI turn/performance, but not as lethal, does not roll as well, and loose parts in high-speed dives. I could go on, but you get the point.

 It is not that the SpitXVI is a "jack of all trades" plane, a little good at everything. This would be more true of planes like the F6F, SpitIX, or P-38. No, the Spit16 is top-of-the-line at everything as a fighter, except for top speed where it is merely good.

You haven't really countered my point but carry on. Here's another thing go consider:  the fine overall performance of the spixteen, combined with its ease of use, allows for noobs to get in a plane and quickly be competitive. Perking it would remove this plane as an option for noobs.

[BnZs]

You haven't really countered my point but carry on. Here's another thing go consider:  the fine overall performance of the spixteen, combined with its ease of use, allows for noobs to get in a plane and quickly be competitive. Perking it would remove this plane as an option for noobs.

Your point was that one plane has to be the "best"...well, that 'taint nessecarily so. A set of different planes with differing strengths and weaknesses over all balancing is imaginable. This is in fact true for most planes in the set vs. most others, the XVI being the one that sticks out like a sore thumb when you start doing plane-to-plane comparisons.

An F4U-4 would help noobs even more...as I've said before, the noob thing isn't a good argument, since there is no way you can limit a plane to "noobs" only. There are many planes which are easy to fly, without absolutely out-classing everything

[Kazaa]

I disagree.  Flying a perk plane is nothing like flying a free plane.  In the perk plane you are gangbanged just because it is perked.  A free plane, barring the rare ones, does not attract that kind of response and the player is free to have a much more agressive fighting style.

Non the less, with a light perk, the XVI/VIII would still be viable as a main ride for most players, most of the time. It’s up for each individual player to fly their style of choosing.

Putting a light perk on XVI and VIII would just rule them out for the very, very newest/poorest of players. I guess BnZ is just tired of being killed by n00bs in a “n00b ride”

Edit: I would agree that perk planes can attract a little more attention, God knows how many times I’ve lead the conga line in my 262, with 20 people following. But perk planes do have the ability to brush of this extra attention, well if flown correctly. The factor that allows them to do so is speed, something which the XVI just doesn’t have. I’ve said before, speed is the biggest defining attribute factored into deciding a planes perk worthiness.

[BnZs]

I gave you my personal definition.  I have no idea what HTC's is.

Ah...so it is abit irrelevant then.

I wish there was some way to get statistics for the furball lake in the DA. Is this possible? That is only available laboratory for seeing which, if any, perked planes garner either 20% of sorties or 15% of kills. Just from my own observation, it doesn't seem like even the Tempest constitutes 1/5 of all planes you encounter in there. If in a non-perk environment like the currently perked planes don't even make the 15%/20% benchmarks, that IMO would present a serious problem with using those benchmarks.

[BnZs]

Putting a light perk on XVI and VIII would just rule it out for the very, very newest of players. I guess BnZ is just tired of being killed by n00bs in a “n00b ride”

*Yawn*......weak. Argument through insult again. Typical net-trash.

5 points on the Sherman makes a difference, why not the SpitXVI? Everytime my GV perks get close to 1,000, I think to myself "Man, I'm spending too much, I gotta drive some panzers for awhile."

[Saxman]

Any 20mm cannon, other than the Type 99 Model 1 or MG/FF, is superior to the Browning .50 cal as a fighter weapon in AH.

When the only thing you go by is hitting power, maybe. But the quality of a gun isn't DECIDED solely by hitting power. Otherwise the German 30mm (or hell, maybe even the B-25H's 75mm) would be the "best" air-mounted guns in the game. However that is most decidedly NOT the case because of the poor muzzle velocity, low rate of fire and poor ballistics.

I don't think ANYONE seriously considers the A6M2 out-guns the F4F. Yeah, the Zero's 20mm are more powerful than the Wildcat's Brownings. But I guarantee you that ask around and almost universally the F4F is considered better-armed than the cannon-equipped Zeke.

[Kazaa]

*Yawn*......weak. Argument through insult again. Typical net-trash.

I'm sorry, no legit response?

5 points on the Sherman makes a difference, why not the SpitXVI? Everytime my GV perks get close to 1,000, I think to myself "Man, I'm spending too much, I gotta drive some panzers for awhile."

It’s impossible to compare tanking to flying, they are two completely different cups of tea.… especially with AH2 dire G.V set.

[BnZs]

I have stated my reason for saying the XVI should be perked...to increase the viability of a wide variety of fighters in the MA. I think when X fighter completely outclasses enough other fighters, it should be considered for perkage. That is what makes sense to me. You say I want it perked because it effects my personal k/d ratio or the like. That is false. Further, it is a malicious lie with no relevancy to the discussion at hand.

I'm sorry, no legit response?

It’s impossible to compare tanking to flying, they are two completely different cups of tea.… especially with AH2 dire G.V set.

[Steve]

Your point was that one plane has to be the "best"...well, that 'taint nessecarily so. A set of different planes with differing strengths and weaknesses over all balancing is imaginable. This is in fact true for most planes in the set vs. most others, the XVI being the one that sticks out like a sore thumb when you start doing plane-to-plane comparisons.

An F4U-4 would help noobs even more...as I've said before, the noob thing isn't a good argument, since there is no way you can limit a plane to "noobs" only. There are many planes which are easy to fly, without absolutely out-classing everything

The noob "thing" is a good arguement, you just down't like it.

Tell me, do you have trouble killing spixteens?

[BnZs]

The noob "thing" is a good arguement, you just down't like it.

No, it is in fact a poor argument. Or, to put it another way, saying something should remain unperked because it "helps noobs compete" is a good argument for unperking anything. The perked planes *are* perked because they have a competitive advantage over other planes. (With the possible exception of the Spit14:D) The truly fatal flaw in your argument is that there is no way to disallow non-"noobs" from flying the SpitXVI.

Tell me, do you have trouble killing spixteens?

Completely irrelevant. Yet another childish attempt to argue through insult/annoyance. It shouldn't surprise me, you also think 200 is worth reading and commenting on.

[Karnak]

I have stated my reason for saying the XVI should be perked...to increase the viability of a wide variety of fighters in the MA. I think when X fighter completely outclasses enough other fighters, it should be considered for perkage. That is what makes sense to me. You say I want it perked because it effects my personal k/d ratio or the like. That is false. Further, it is a malicious lie with no relevancy to the discussion at hand.

Perking the P-51D would have a larger effect on the variety of fighters, yet you don't argue for perking that.

If you wanted more variety, the single biggest thing, in my opinion, to create more variety would be to remove 1000lb bombs as an option for fighters.