Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[BnZs]

Another thing I must point out: If everyone posting to this thread worshiped top-end speed to the extent they preach, then they would be flying La7s, D9s, K4s, P-51Ds, or P-47Ns 90% of the time, and they would consider them the best 5 planes in the game. But, apparently things *other* than top level speed DO hold some importance, judging by plane distribution in the MA, and if I had started a post claiming these 5 were the "best" of the non-perk rides, I can only imagine the numbers of responses I would have gotten telling me I was wrong.

[hyster]

i posted this in another thread a while back and i think it still holds true.

whiner - perk the spit 16 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  9 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  8 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  5 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the spit  1 its ubber - skuzzy - ok its perked
whiner - perk the hmmm. damn nothing left to perk - skuzzy - well you whinged about every thing now live with it!!!!!!!!!

whiner - skuzzy can we have the sopworth camel please??? pretty please. promise we wont wine that its to ubber if you do.

if any thing id like to see the eny values changed so that the all perked plans get a 1eny spit 16 2eny and so forth.

[BnZs]

Perking the P-51D would have a larger effect on the variety of fighters, yet you don't argue for perking that.

How so Karnak? The P-51D is inferior in maneuverability to nearly everything slower. It is inferior in wingloading and thrust/weight to a whole lot. It is inferior in speed AND turn AND climb to a number of unperked fighters! Almost everything in the set has a viable chance against it by forcing an angles fight, including light bombers like the A-20. The P-51D effects the viability of other fighters in the set very little, if at all.

If you wanted more variety, the single biggest thing, in my opinion, to create more variety would be to remove 1000lb bombs as an option for fighters.

What? How so? It would remove the one factor that actually gets some people into a P-plane instead of a more dedicated dogfighter. Myself, I have very little interest in using a fighter as a bomb-truck for toolshedding and landrabbery, and do not factor

[Kev367th]

No, it is in fact a poor argument. Or, to put it another way, saying something should remain unperked because it "helps noobs compete" is a good argument for unperking anything. The perked planes *are* perked because they have a competitive advantage over other planes. (With the possible exception of the SpitXIV! ) The truly fatal flaw in your argument is that there is no way to disallow anyone but "noobs" from flying it.

Completely irrelevant. Yet another childish attempt to argue through insult/annoyance. It shouldn't surprise me, you also think 200 is worth reading and commenting on.

OK then a question for you -

HT perks the XVI, what should be done to allow/compensate for the fact that the LATEST free RAF fighter would then be a 1943 Mk VIII?
Bearing in mind the now all important holy grail of making things fair for EVERYBODY, guess we start perking anything that outperforms an VIII next, leaving similar performing free?
Sound fair?

As the overwhelming main attriubute in the MA is top speed, perking the XVI would essentially make it a hanger queen, much as the XIV already is.

[BnZs]

i posted this in another thread a while back and i think it still holds true.

if any thing id like to see the eny values changed so that the all perked plans get a 1eny spit 16 2eny and so forth.

Two things greatly amuse me about your post Hyster. First, you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the SpitVIII is more, um, "uber" than the SpitIX. Second, I never mentioned perking the SpitVIII. While the SpitVIII is only slightly inferior in engine performance to the SpitXVI, it has enough small inferiorities, particularly roll rate, to justify leaving it unperked.

[Kev367th]

Two things greatly amuse me about your post Hyster. First, you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the SpitVIII is more, um, "uber" than the SpitIX. Second, I never mentioned perking the SpitVIII. While the SpitVIII is only slightly inferior in engine performance to the SpitXVI, it has enough small inferiorities, particularly roll rate, to justify leaving it unperked.

Eh?

Apart from the fact the VIII engine was built in the UK and the XVI engine was built in the US they are the same!
The 2 in Merlin 266 designates a Merlin 66 built abroad.

The difference is the clipped wings on a XVI allows a very slightly higher speed than a non clipped. Take an VIII and clip it you have a XVI with extra range.

[BnZs]

OK then a question for you -

HT perks the XVI, what should be done to allow/compensate for the fact that the LATEST free RAF fighter would then be a 1943 Mk VIII?

Who cares about the date on the thing? It is irrelevant to performance. The Mk. VIII is a highly competitive fighter, I've probably flown in more than the XVI. It just isn't excellent-to-good in every single category of fighter performance like the XVI is. Hell, the Mk. IX is even quite competitive in the LW MA. Or was Soda lying when he said this of the SpitIX?

Overview

Consistently the most common and popular aircraft in the game, the Spitfire Mk IX has a wonderful combination of characteristics that have earned it that spot.  It simply does almost everything well and has few obvious weaknesses , making it an obvious choice for newer players.  That is not to say that it is a newbie aircraft though, it offers great growth potential and even some veteran pilots fly the Spit IX quite extensively.  The Spitfire can actually be quite a creative aircraft to fly and adopts well to many styles with great success....
...Most aircraft require that they be flown in a "Style" in order to be the most successful but the Spit can be flown almost recklessly and still do alright.  Typically it is used as TnB fighter though it is at least as equally impressive when used in a BnZ role.  Being un the receiving end of a BnZ Spit IX is a simply scary situation that needs to be avoided....
...The Spit IX is probably the most dangerous plane to encounter as it can put up a fight in so many ways and win.  At high altitudes it's the best maneuvering and among some of the fastest planes.  Down low it is a great turner with good climb and acceleration if not for a bit of a lack of top end speed.  You are also bound to see lots of Spitfires, both above and below you so you need to know how to identify them quickly and build a plan on how to deal with them...
...A veteran Spit pilot though can simply be impossible to shake and will let you flail around avoiding him until you run out of options.  Then he will pounce and put you in your parachute.


Keep in mind that the P-51D, D9, La7, and many other "speed demons" were already present when Soda wrote his assessment. The SpitXVI is better than the IX in every way...forgive me if I chuckle a bit when you claim RAF fans need the absolute *best* Spit in the hangar to compete in the MA.

As the overwhelming main attriubute in the MA is top speed, perking the XVI would essentially make it a hanger queen, much as the XIV already is.

The overwhelming MA attribute is NOT top speed. If that were the case, then the 109K4, 190D9, La7, and Typhoon would be more popular than the P-51D AND the SpitXVI. The F4U-1C is *slower* than the Spixteen at most typical MA alts, yet it is a very popular perk plane. The XIV's problem is that it is perked too high in relation to what it can do vs. the other perk planes.

[Kazaa]

Eh?

Apart from the fact the VIII engine was built in the UK and the XVI engine was built in the US they are the same!
The 2 in Merlin 266 designates a Merlin 66 built abroad.

The difference is the clipped wings on a XVI allows a very slightly higher speed than a non clipped. Take an VIII and clip it you have a XVI with extra range.

+1 , I loled irl.

[BnZs]

Eh?

Apart from the fact the VIII engine was built in the UK and the XVI engine was built in the US they are the same!
The 2 in Merlin 266 designates a Merlin 66 built abroad.

The difference is the clipped wings on a XVI allows a very slightly higher speed than a non clipped. Take an VIII and clip it you have a XVI with extra range.

In Hyster's "order of perkage", the IX would be perked before the VIII. That is what I was referring to.

The VIII is listed as being slightly inferior to the XVI in climb rate as well as top speed.

[Kazaa]

Soda also said the following, when referring to the XVI:

"Don’t use flaps, they are really only for landing and the drag they produce is a real disadvantage." 

I'm telling you now, I work the XVI's flaps all the time in fights.

http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/Spitfire16.htm

[Kev367th]

In Hyster's "order of perkage", the IX would be perked before the VIII. That is what I was referring to.

Really

You said-
"Two things greatly amuse me about your post Hyster. First, you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the SpitVIII is more, um, "uber" than the SpitIX. Second, I never mentioned perking the SpitVIII. While the SpitVIII is only slightly inferior in engine performance to the SpitXVI, it has enough small inferiorities, particularly roll rate, to justify leaving it unperked."

Seems quite clear you say the VIII engine performance is slightly inferior to the XVI?

I assume Hyster either -
Was putting them in descending order of Mk (most likely), or didn't know the VIII came after the IX.

[Karnak]

Most of us in this thread don't use the Spit XVI either. Guppy uses the P-38G and I use the Mosquito. We obviously have non-powergamer reasons for our choices. What is your point?

How so Karnak? The P-51D is inferior in maneuverability to nearly everything slower. It is inferior in wingloading and thrust/weight to a whole lot. It is inferior in speed AND turn AND climb to a number of unperked fighters! Almost everything in the set has a viable chance against it by forcing an angles fight, including light bombers like the A-20. The P-51D effects the viability of other fighters in the set very little, if at all.

Perking the most common aircraft forces at least a percentage of the players who use it into new aircraft (or out of the game), therefore perking the most used aircraft creates the largest pool of players to be forced into new aircraft.

What? How so? It would remove the one factor that actually gets some people into a P-plane instead of a more dedicated dogfighter. Myself, I have very little interest in using a fighter as a bomb-truck for toolshedding and landrabbery, and do not factor

It differentiates fighters from attack aircraft.  Currently the late American fighters do it all so nobody bothers with things like the Ju87 or SBD-5.  Even the A-20G and Mosquito VI are sidelined a bit by it.

[BnZs]

Really

You said-
"Two things greatly amuse me about your post Hyster. First, you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the SpitVIII is more, um, "uber" than the SpitIX. Second, I never mentioned perking the SpitVIII. While the SpitVIII is only slightly inferior in engine performance to the SpitXVI, it has enough small inferiorities, particularly roll rate, to justify leaving it unperked."

In game, the climb performance and top speed are slightly inferior. These attributes are generally referred to "engine performance" even though the differences can be caused by attaching more/less airplane to the same basic engine (P-47 vs. F4U at low alts) as well as an actual horsepower difference.

IOW, the SpitXVI does slightly outperform the VIII, and you are delving into another irrelevancy as a distraction.

[bj229r]

The Spit16 is as fast or faster than all P-47Ds at typical MA altitudes. It is more lethal than the La7 in guns, rolls better, turns far far better than the La7. The La7 is technically a superior turner to the Jug as well, but in reality, its handling is far below that of a Spitfire as flown by most. I easily destroy or put to flight La7s who engage my Jug more often than they get me. So your post is illogical...you are essentially saying you prefer a plane which can run you down and which ridiculously out-classes you as a knife-fighter as well vs. a  plane that can run you down also, but is a much more difficult handling plane which can often be made to loose the knife-fight through basic ACM? This does not make sense to me.

For the record, I think the La7 technically deserves a light perk price as well, but comparing what it can do in average hands vs. the whole plane set compared to what the Spit16 can do, it is not as needful of a perk price.

N is faster than a 16 as long as wep remains...a bit less nimble than D40/25 obviously, but I'll take the 25 knots (what IS a typical MA alt?) Aside from that, 16 compresses trying to follow it through dive, Lgay does not, and Lgay takes abSURD amount of damage, as opposed to spit, which usually pops with 1 good burst. At any rate, I usually fare better against the 16 than the Lgay

[Guppy35]

In game, the climb performance and top speed are slightly inferior. These attributes are generally referred to "engine performance" even though the differences can be caused by attaching more/less airplane to the same basic engine (P-47 vs. F4U at low alts) as well as an actual horsepower difference.

IOW, the SpitXVI does slightly outperform the VIII, and you are delving into another irrelevancy as a distraction.

OK how bout this.  We perk the 16 and HTC introduces a clipped wing LFIXe into the game so the MA guys can fly that instead?  Work for you?