Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[BnZs]

Doing sort giving top speed at low alt a weight of "1" and leaving the other categories at zero, the SpitXVI is number 15 in top speed out of 51 unperked fighters. That means it is faster than over 70% of non-perked fighters.

1      La-7     LaLa      Russian      Fighter      L/M      6.08    6.35    8.53    5.71    7.55    6.00    5.00    6.49    5.81    2.65    6.75    6.42    7.63    2.97    2.88    1.16     6.08
2    Fw 190D-9    Shrike,Dora     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     6.05    6.88    7.87    7.36    8.47    6.65    4.35    6.84    6.08    4.47    3.65    3.71    10.00    2.68    4.29    1.59    6.05
3    Bf 109K-4    Gustav     German     Fighter     M/H     6.02    7.14    9.22    8.19    7.04    7.40    3.60    6.84    8.46    5.34    5.31    5.19    7.02    3.57    2.55    ---    6.02
4    P-51D    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.87    6.73    6.62    5.91    9.08    6.25    4.75    6.49    6.08    7.69    3.54    2.40    7.52    2.31    3.71    2.78    5.87
5    Typhoon Mk I    Typhy     British     Fighter/Attacker     L/M     5.76    6.19    5.93    4.62    7.23    8.00    3.00    6.49    4.97    4.44    5.06    4.32    3.00    4.08    3.78    2.17    5.76
6    P-47N    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.72    6.80    5.46    5.49    8.44    4.50    6.50    6.05    3.42    8.88    4.70    1.79    8.30    2.76    6.02    3.52    5.72
7    P-51B    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.64    6.74    6.44    6.35    10.00    6.00    5.00    6.27    5.98    7.91    4.17    2.31    7.24    1.85    2.77    2.07    5.64
8    Ta 152H         German     Fighter     M/H     5.62    6.50    6.70    6.08    8.86    5.00    6.00    5.83    6.30    6.92    4.25    4.41    7.34    4.59    3.83    ---    5.62
9    Bf 109G-14    Gustav     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.60    6.39    9.25    7.94    7.04    7.00    4.00    6.05    7.83    4.96    6.10    5.37    7.02    3.57    2.55    1.49    5.60
10    F4U-1    Corsair, Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.53    6.57    5.47    5.05    7.55    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.27    6.61    7.24    5.02    7.87    2.31    4.42    1.52    5.53
11    Yak-9U         Russian     Fighter     L/M     5.53    6.46    6.87    5.71    7.75    7.00    4.00    5.61    7.15    3.56    5.56    5.02    7.73    2.07    1.36    ---    5.53
12    La-5FN         Russian     Fighter     L/M     5.45    5.90    7.77    6.21    7.99    6.50    4.50    6.49    5.64    2.58    6.59    6.07    7.45    2.29    2.65    1.16    5.45
13    F4U-1D    Corsair, Hog, D Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.30    6.32    6.06    5.22    8.81    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.15    6.70    7.20    5.11    8.16    2.31    4.50    2.99    5.30
14    Bf 109G-2    Gustav     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.15    6.14    8.27    7.10    6.57    7.00    4.00    6.05    7.87    4.98    6.50    5.89    7.17    1.75    2.16    1.23    5.15
15    Spitfire Mk XVI

As you can see, the only faster fighters that even have a claim to being more maneuverable are the F4Us, and that is debatable, while there are many slower fighters that are indisputably less maneuverable.

A search for top speed, "high alt", yields the following result:
1      Bf 109K-4     Gustav      German      Fighter      M/H      6.02    7.14    9.22    8.19    7.04    7.40    3.60    6.84    8.46    5.34    5.31    5.19    7.02    3.57    2.55    ---      7.14
2    Fw 190D-9    Shrike,Dora     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     6.05    6.88    7.87    7.36    8.47    6.65    4.35    6.84    6.08    4.47    3.65    3.71    10.00    2.68    4.29    1.59    6.88
3    P-47N    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.72    6.80    5.46    5.49    8.44    4.50    6.50    6.05    3.42    8.88    4.70    1.79    8.30    2.76    6.02    3.52    6.80
4    P-51B    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.64    6.74    6.44    6.35    10.00    6.00    5.00    6.27    5.98    7.91    4.17    2.31    7.24    1.85    2.77    2.07    6.74
5    P-51D    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.87    6.73    6.62    5.91    9.08    6.25    4.75    6.49    6.08    7.69    3.54    2.40    7.52    2.31    3.71    2.78    6.73
6    F4U-1    Corsair, Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.53    6.57    5.47    5.05    7.55    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.27    6.61    7.24    5.02    7.87    2.31    4.42    1.52    6.57
7    Ta 152H         German     Fighter     M/H     5.62    6.50    6.70    6.08    8.86    5.00    6.00    5.83    6.30    6.92    4.25    4.41    7.34    4.59    3.83    ---    6.50
8    Yak-9U         Russian     Fighter     L/M     5.53    6.46    6.87    5.71    7.75    7.00    4.00    5.61    7.15    3.56    5.56    5.02    7.73    2.07    1.36    ---    6.46
9    Bf 109G-14    Gustav     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.60    6.39    9.25    7.94    7.04    7.00    4.00    6.05    7.83    4.96    6.10    5.37    7.02    3.57    2.55    1.49    6.39
10    La-7    LaLa     Russian     Fighter     L/M     6.08    6.35    8.53    5.71    7.55    6.00    5.00    6.49    5.81    2.65    6.75    6.42    7.63    2.97    2.88    1.16    6.35
11    F4U-1D    Corsair, Hog, D Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.30    6.32    6.06    5.22    8.81    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.15    6.70    7.20    5.11    8.16    2.31    4.50    2.99    6.32
12    P-47D-11    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.12    6.25    5.57    5.41    8.09    4.75    6.25    5.83    3.75    4.41    5.82    3.53    7.73    2.76    6.02    1.20    6.25
13    P-47D-40    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.06    6.23    6.27    5.99    8.47    4.75    6.25    5.83    3.61    7.75    4.96    2.40    7.73    2.76    6.02    3.52    6.23
14    Typhoon Mk I    Typhy     British     Fighter/Attacker     L/M     5.76    6.19    5.93    4.62    7.23    8.00    3.00    6.49    4.97    4.44    5.06    4.32    3.00    4.08    3.78    2.17    6.19
15    Spitfire Mk XVI

So while some low-alt speed demons loose their place, the Spit16 retains its #15 slot. Once again, only the F4U is even arguably more maneuverable than the Spit16.

Doing a sort that gives equal weight to top speed at both high and low alt, once again the Spit16 makes 15th place out of 51 fighters.

     Bf 109K-4     Gustav      German      Fighter      M/H      6.02    7.14    9.22    8.19    7.04    7.40    3.60    6.84    8.46    5.34    5.31    5.19    7.02    3.57    2.55    ---      13.16
2    Fw 190D-9    Shrike,Dora     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     6.05    6.88    7.87    7.36    8.47    6.65    4.35    6.84    6.08    4.47    3.65    3.71    10.00    2.68    4.29    1.59    12.93
3    P-51D    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.87    6.73    6.62    5.91    9.08    6.25    4.75    6.49    6.08    7.69    3.54    2.40    7.52    2.31    3.71    2.78    12.60
4    P-47N    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.72    6.80    5.46    5.49    8.44    4.50    6.50    6.05    3.42    8.88    4.70    1.79    8.30    2.76    6.02    3.52    12.52
5    La-7    LaLa     Russian     Fighter     L/M     6.08    6.35    8.53    5.71    7.55    6.00    5.00    6.49    5.81    2.65    6.75    6.42    7.63    2.97    2.88    1.16    12.43
6    P-51B    Mustang, Pony     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.64    6.74    6.44    6.35    10.00    6.00    5.00    6.27    5.98    7.91    4.17    2.31    7.24    1.85    2.77    2.07    12.38
7    Ta 152H         German     Fighter     M/H     5.62    6.50    6.70    6.08    8.86    5.00    6.00    5.83    6.30    6.92    4.25    4.41    7.34    4.59    3.83    ---    12.12
8    F4U-1    Corsair, Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.53    6.57    5.47    5.05    7.55    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.27    6.61    7.24    5.02    7.87    2.31    4.42    1.52    12.10
9    Bf 109G-14    Gustav     German     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.60    6.39    9.25    7.94    7.04    7.00    4.00    6.05    7.83    4.96    6.10    5.37    7.02    3.57    2.55    1.49    11.99
10    Yak-9U         Russian     Fighter     L/M     5.53    6.46    6.87    5.71    7.75    7.00    4.00    5.61    7.15    3.56    5.56    5.02    7.73    2.07    1.36    ---    11.99
11    Typhoon Mk I    Typhy     British     Fighter/Attacker     L/M     5.76    6.19    5.93    4.62    7.23    8.00    3.00    6.49    4.97    4.44    5.06    4.32    3.00    4.08    3.78    2.17    11.95
12    F4U-1D    Corsair, Hog, D Hog     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.30    6.32    6.06    5.22    8.81    5.00    6.00    5.83    4.15    6.70    7.20    5.11    8.16    2.31    4.50    2.99    11.62
13    P-47D-11    Thunderbolt, Jug     American     Fighter/Attacker     M/H     5.12    6.25    5.57    5.41    8.09    4.75    6.25    5.83    3.75    4.41    5.82    3.53    7.73    2.76    6.02    1.20    11.37
14    La-5FN         Russian     Fighter     L/M     5.45    5.90    7.77    6.21    7.99    6.50    4.50    6.49    5.64    2.58    6.59    6.07    7.45    2.29    2.65    1.16    11.35
15    Spitfire Mk XVI    


So, in conclusion. 1. The machine is faster than 70% of the unperked plane set. To say it is relatively slow is simply a lie. I would appreciate this lie not being repeated in the future. 2. No unperked plane that is faster is more maneuverable, except arguably the F4Us, and that is *highly* debatable. (Slightly smaller sustained turn radius, greatly inferior sustained turn rate) 3. Of the 36 planes, or, 70% of the unperked set that is slower than the Spit16, many are inferior in turn, and nearly all are inferior in climb, acceleration, and roll.

[SlapShot]

<yawn>

[xbrit]

That's a lot of work just to whine about spits, also too many numbers for us poor spit drivers to read we just prefer flying and having fun instead of that "work".

[moot]

Can't see much, the table's unclear. You should dump it to excel and post a screenshot.

[Lusche]

Am I the only one seeing an obsessed mind on a futile crusade?

[thrila]

You haven't explained what those numbers mean and how they were derived- all i see is numbers.  Bnz, how frequently seen in the LW MA are the 70% fighters that the spit16is faster than.  Also, what alts are you deriving aircraft speed or is it top speed? those tables you posted are an absolute mess.

[Bruv119]

spit 16 is pretty slow though.

I'll back that claim up when i get a spare hour or three.

[Anaxogoras]

Where are these numbers from?

Found it: http://www.jcsautomation.com/AH_View_Planes.asp

[Lusche]

Charts are sooo much better than a wall of abstract numbers 



(Disclaimer - Most numbers are derived right off the speed tables and some may be off by maybe 1 or 2 mph. If anybody spots a major error, please say so.)

[moot]

Lusche I think it's one of the more interesting subtleties of the plane set.  What would be interesting would be seeing a graphic of the XVI's top speed, level acceleration, and e retention in shallow/steep zooms vs. a number of reference models, like the other ENY 5 planes, a couple of perk planes, contemporaries, etc.  I think just looking at the XVI's 3 digit level speed figure on paper is a very poor indicator of what the XVI actually performs like.

[Lusche]

Maybe someone will come up with that. My point was more a technical one about data presentation

[Anaxogoras]

Ranking speed with 1, 2, 3, 4... is way too simplistic to give an accurate picture of how the aircraft stacks up against the competition.

Here are the Zscores for speed on the deck.  Zscore = (speed - average speed) / standard deviation

[Sgtlead]

I have a headache now

[RTHolmes]

So, in conclusion. 1. The machine is faster than 70% of the unperked plane set. To say it is relatively slow is simply a lie.

well we all know its faster than a P-40, how does it compared when stacked up against other late war fighters?

[Steve]

Lusche I think it's one of the more interesting subtleties of the plane set.  What would be interesting would be seeing a graphic of the XVI's top speed, level acceleration, and e retention in shallow/steep zooms vs. a number of reference models, like the other ENY 5 planes, a couple of perk planes, contemporaries, etc.  I think just looking at the XVI's 3 digit level speed figure on paper is a very poor indicator of what the XVI actually performs like.

+1 Yup,. it's stellar acceleration is a big factor in the MA