Author Topic: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"  (Read 14648 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #435 on: May 17, 2009, 12:38:25 AM »
My what (another) bald-faced lie from Karnak..

Don't you ever get tired of spewing your falsehoods, Karnak?


Well do I recall you saying that the Mossie being 10-15mph too slow didn't make any difference and didn't need to be addressed and yet I think I have seen you ask for the Fw190A-5 to be brought up to the proper speed, which it should be, as should the Mossie.  You are also fond of claiming manuevers by Spit VIII and XVIs that are literally impossible, insisting that it happened and magically never having film for it, e.g. you have claimed that the XVI can climb up to your Bf109, pull a hard 180, accelerating past 400mph and running you down all the while you did no hard manuevers.  Anybody can take a Mk XVI offline and try that, proving that it cannot do it, yet you would not retract your claim nor admit you misread the enemy's E state and exagerated your own.  You also claim the Lancaster is grossly overdurable, something I have never noticed and the testing I did on its tail did not indicate.

You have a persistant double standard when it comes to British aircraft.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #436 on: May 17, 2009, 12:55:02 AM »
Every single plane in AH2 has both strengths and weaknesses. The object of a fighter pilot is to fight his fight meaning fly his planes strengths to the other dudes planes weaknesses and thereby defeat him.

The interplay of dissimilar airplane types is fun when type A has a strength or two and a weakness or two in-play against type B's own strength's and weaknesses. Technically speaking, having top speed/ability to run away as A's sole strength against B isn't too darn fun, but at least those flying Bs have to deal with As running away to deny them kills and set up drags. But when B has it *all* over A, C, D, E, F, G, etc, I must ask where is the fun in that? For EITHER side?


"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline DamnedRen

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #437 on: May 17, 2009, 05:17:46 AM »
Perhaps you might try to learn how to shoot them down some more?

Or maybe why is it many dudes have a lot of fun?

But, you're not?

It's not the planes, you don't fly fighters enough. So what is it?

Shades account?

Ren

Offline Boozeman

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #438 on: May 17, 2009, 07:02:46 AM »
They’ll look for a cheap shot or ho then run away if they can’t go vertical, I’ll pull off almost instantly because I know they will not come back otherwise. Then the torture starts all over again. :furious

Seriously, I’m banging my head into the wall just thinking about it. :furious


Try flying something different then 16s, La7s and stuff like that for the majority of your sorties. Try planes like the P-39, P-40 and...well, you get the idea. You will be amazed how many Doras (or any other fast plane for that matter) will keep the fight "thight". And I'm sure you will get them anyway. Maybe you wont get 10-1 K/D ratios anymore, but it's a about the fun, isn't it?

Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #439 on: May 17, 2009, 08:20:03 AM »




Perhaps you might try to learn how to shoot them down some more?

Or maybe why is it many dudes have a lot of fun?

But, you're not?

It's not the planes, you don't fly fighters enough. So what is it?

Shades account?

Ren

Ren
The game is plenty of fun for me. Even in an environment where *nothing* is perked. Why can you not accept that what I have to say on this issue is based on an intelligent comparison of performance and a sense of fairness/sport?

And WTF? I fly fighters plenty. Make every FSO too.

Oh, wait a minute...I get it. You just checked "fighter ranks" in an attempt to pigeonhole me and discovered I didn't have one. How very irrelevant, how very sad. You didn't investigate very deeply did you? Here is a clue for you: I fly most every fighter sortie with it clicked over to "attack". It is a bit of a psychological trick on myself, that helps keep my mind on flying for fun and not for irrelevancies.

All these attempts to make everything personal...I think it is because you can not refute my basic point about the Spixteen's performance relative much of the rest of the set. And no, the fact that it is possible  for a well-trained pilot to shoot down a Spixteen noob in a lesser ride does *not* refute my point, anymore than the fact that it is possible for trained martial artist to take down drunken belligerent with a knife means that "knife vs. bare hands"=fair fight.

EDIT: I just did a quick walk memory lane on the AHII player statistics page. Almost every tour shows me as having a positive K/D against the SpitXVI. Sometimes it is close to 1:1, some tours it is something stupid like 14:1. My *first AHII tour* (tour 83, callsign "BnZ") my k/d against SpitXVI was 3:3! By my *second* tour it had become positive (7:4). So much for the laughable theory that I hold my position because SpitXVIs give me some sort of special trouble....
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 11:24:22 AM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Kazaa

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #440 on: May 17, 2009, 11:18:42 AM »
Try flying something different then 16s, La7s and stuff like that for the majority of your sorties. Try planes like the P-39, P-40 and...well, you get the idea. You will be amazed how many Doras (or any other fast plane for that matter) will keep the fight "thight". And I'm sure you will get them anyway. Maybe you wont get 10-1 K/D ratios anymore, but it's a about the fun, isn't it?

Screw that,  I started flying perk rides this tour just so I could take out my frustration on every 190 I come across.

My K/D ratio is 10 this tour, wow I never noticed. I might have to start playing seriously and not just for fun!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 11:29:06 AM by Kazaa »



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Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #441 on: May 17, 2009, 11:40:06 AM »
Off-Topic, but:
You know, it makes me grin a little when people complain that "Arrggh! (insert standard boom and zoom type plane here) makes one pass at me and runs away!" Huh...if it comes close enough to actually fire on you, then after you force the overshoot there *is* going to be an envelope for a snapshot for *some* period of time. It may be brief and difficult shot, but it will be possible. Yet no one makes it a "skillz" issues with those who complain about runners and says "Haha, the only reason you posted this is because you aren't l33t enough to hit a snapshot at D400 before he gets out of range..." I wonder why? :huh
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Kazaa

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #442 on: May 17, 2009, 11:47:57 AM »
I'm more than capable of forcing the over shoot and trying my luck on the snap shot, I’ll get a few pings here and there; sometime I’ll get lucky and blow the stab off. ;)

But it's a bloody hard thing to take the other player out when he's mashing his stick doing 400Mph +.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 11:58:47 AM by Kazaa »



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Offline hitech

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #443 on: May 17, 2009, 06:10:03 PM »
Quote
Why can you not accept that what I have to say on this issue is based on an intelligent comparison of performance and a sense of fairness/sport?

Because I read what your wrote. And intelligent comparison is not a phrase I would ever use in your evaluations, where it is obvious you wish to only try to pick facts that support your position ,and wish to ignore any that do not.

Intelegent comparison would imply an analysis of ALL the pertinent information, not just conveniently ignoring things that do not support your position.

Then statements like this.

Quote
But if perking the Spixteen would cost too many noob's subscriptions, understood. salute You don't slaughter the milk cow in tough times. Wink

Exactly where is the fairness or intelligence in a post like this? Do you really believe we are so naive that we think perking 1 plane would change how many new people play, it is YOU who assigns that attribute. Most new players would have no idea about different spit variants.

You ignore basic facts that the Spit 16 does not dominate the arena. Yet you grasp at straws to try prove it does. This is why people start assigning other motives to your desires. Because the one you state of fairness is not supported by you invalid arguments.

You ignore facts that the top 4 most popular planes are fairly close in there usage numbers and K/d's.
You ignore basic facts, that one plane will always be the most popular, all that can be done is change what plane that is.
You ignore past facts , like the F4U-C domination, and then try play word games to define unbalancing.

I have no idea what your motivation is, but I do know it has nothing to do with wanting to improve game balance or the fun of arena play, but my guess is that it is something that would let you kill more and live more.

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Offline crazyivan

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #444 on: May 17, 2009, 06:42:58 PM »
Fly a mid eny plane a few times.Then fly your spixteen, gezz cry me a river.  :cry
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #445 on: May 17, 2009, 07:39:06 PM »
I have no idea what your motivation is, but I do know it has nothing to do with wanting to improve game balance or the fun of arena play, but my guess is that it is something that would let you kill more and live more.

Nah hitech, he rejects your premise that perking/eny should be based on usage numbers or extreme popularity.  I can understand that much even if I don't agree with everything he says.
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Offline Ruah

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #446 on: May 17, 2009, 08:22:57 PM »
/thread imo

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Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #447 on: May 17, 2009, 08:50:13 PM »
Because I read what your wrote. And intelligent comparison is not a phrase I would ever use in your evaluations, where it is obvious you wish to only try to pick facts that support your position ,and wish to ignore any that do not.

So...having a popular plane that is faster than 70% of the fighter set while being double-superior to a great lot of them under typical MA conditions, including important LW fighters (not "irrelevant EW relics"), does nothing to make other choices less viable? I was actually being exceedingly fair, not mentioning all the airplanes to which the SpitXVI is quite double-superior, IF these same planes possess a marginal top speed advantage that would allow them to conceivably disengage from Spixteens.

Exactly where is the fairness or intelligence in a post like this? Do you really believe we are so naive that we think perking 1 plane would change how many new people play, it is YOU who assigns that attribute. Most new players would have no idea about different spit variants.

Perking one or two planes would perhaps increase the types of planes new players could fly successfully, instead of eventually saying "screw it, I'm taking a Spixteen" OR one of the top speed demons that can simply run away from it.

You ignore basic facts that the Spit 16 does not dominate the arena. Yet you grasp at straws to try prove it does. This is why people start assigning other motives to your desires. Because the one you state of fairness is not supported by you invalid arguments.

I ignore vague phrases like "dominate the arena" and tend to go in for something more objective, like side-by-side performance stats.


You ignore facts that the top 4 most popular planes are fairly close in there usage numbers and K/d's.

You ignore the fact that popularity and even k/d are not shaped by the actual performance values of the aircraft.


You ignore basic facts, that one plane will always be the most popular, all that can be done is change what plane that is.

Yes, and that plane will always be the P-51D, mediocre though it may be in comparison to much of the rest of the set. But since the P-51D is not even the fastest unperked airplane,not a brilliant climber or exceedingly well armed, and since conservatively 90% of the fighter set has at least one performance advantage over the P-51D, its popularity does not concern me.


You ignore past facts , like the F4U-C domination, and then try play word games to define unbalancing.

I realize that while there are many fast and/or maneuverable birds with quad cannons or equally lethal firepower, none of them can up off a CV, and that makes a difference, as does the fact that the C-Hog was relatively rare. Still doesn't keep it from being ironic that the C-Hog is perked when airplanes that are at least its equal are not.

I have no idea what your motivation is, but I do know it has nothing to do with wanting to improve game balance or the fun of arena play, but my guess is that it is something that would let you kill more and live more.

And you would be very wrong in that guess. I kill and live enough, thank you.

Lighten up. I have expressed my opinion that this is the best WWII flight sim (and explained WHY it is better than the closest competition) on numerous occasions on this very forum. Questioning one aspect of the MA does not equal an attack upon your masterpiece. Everyone who asks questions is not your enemy, and the sycophantic are not necessarily your friends.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 09:23:38 PM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Steve

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #448 on: May 17, 2009, 08:57:20 PM »

blah blah blah I don't know when to quit blah blah blah.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #449 on: May 18, 2009, 01:47:34 AM »
No kidding Steve.  Jeez BnZs, let it go will ya.  The powers that be have spoken.
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