Panther tanks

[kcfarris]

Said by many to be the best tank of WW2; Faster than panzer IV and V, main gun more comparable to the Tigers.

[Denholm]

Welcome to the Aces High forums. Check out this page for a good idea as to what you should have done before posting here.

In regards to the request, I think we need to get more tanks from different countries before we continue to expand the German tank armory.

[wulf31]

In regards to the request, I think we need to get more tanks from different countries before we continue to expand the German tank armory.

Oh yeah all we need are some M13/40s and some Char Bs....oooh and some M3 Grants/Lees for the North Africa campaigns

[E25280]

Said by many to be the best tank of WW2; Faster than panzer IV and V, main gun more comparable to the Tigers.

The Panther is not faster than the Panzer V.


Because it is the Panzer V.  

[curry1]

actually panther also had a 75mm gun

[Larry]

actually panther also had a 75mm gun

Yes, and the panther's 75mm was better then the tiger's 88mm gun.

[wulf31]

Yes, and the panther's 75mm was better then the tiger's 88mm gun.

 not quite an accurate statement...When the 7.5 cm KwK 42 entered service with the Panther in 1943 it could penetrate more armor than almost any of the enemy's antitank or tank guns. In this respect it was in fact even more powerful than the Tiger's famous 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 when using APCBC-HE rounds, though not with the APCR variety. With either ammunition type, the 7.5 cm KwK 42 performed less favorably than the 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 as range increased, due to the faster loss of velocity imparted on the lighter projectile by air drag. Also, being of a smaller calibre, it fired a weaker HE shell.

[Larry]

not quite an accurate statement...

My source says differently. Only until 2000m does the tiger's gun start to penetrate more then the panther's. I used the HVAP rounds but the APCBC stats show pretty much the same thing. As for the HE rounds, well they really don't matter when your going up against other tanks.

75 mm KwK 42 L/70

HVAP
Round weight 4.75 kg
Velocity 1,120 m/s

194mm at 100m
174mm at 500m
150mm at 1000m
127mm at 1500m
106mm at 2000m


88 mm KwK 36 L/56

HVAP
Round weight 7.3 kg
Velocity 930 m/s

171mm at 100m
156mm at 500m
138mm at 1000m
123mm at 1500m
110mm at 2000m

[wulf31]

 After a little light reading (heh) I have found the error in your data.

 your 75 mm KwK 42 L/70 data is based on penetrating a 90 degree plate, while your 88 mm KwK 36 L/56 data is based on a 30 degree plate

  I couldnt find exact same distance tests but this is what I did find based on 30 degree armor slope

  75 mm KwK 42 L/70
            0 m:  197 mm
         450 m:  154 mm
         900 m:  123 mm
       1350 m:  99 mm
       1850 m:  80 mm
       2300 m:  65 mm

  88 mm KwK 36 L/56
  100 m    171 mm    
  500 m    156 mm    
  1000 m    138 mm    
  1500 m    123 mm    
  2000 m    110 mm

 and of course we are both using data based on ammunition that was extremely rare on the German side

[Larry]

Nope, both of mine say 30°.

[Lusche]

See Guns vs Armor website.

[wulf31]

 It seems we have different resources.... in any case you should have read what I originally posted. When using standard issue German AP rounds i.e. APCBC the L/70 was superior. In AHII terms HVAP rounds should be perked somehow. Only at extreme range (2k+) did the L/56 start to out perform the because of the weight of the round. As to the HE rounds....well...only in this game are they ineffective against armor....you didnt have to penetrate to disable.

[Larry]

75 mm KwK 42 L/70

APCBC
Round weight 6.8 kg
Velocity 925 m/s

138mm at 100m
124mm at 500m
111mm at 1,000m
99mm at 1,500m
89mm at 2,000m


88 mm KwK 36 L/56

APCBC
Round weight 10.2 kg
Velocity 773 m/s

120mm at 100m
110mm at 500m
100mm at 1,000m
91mm at 1,500m
84mm at 2,000m



Just to clarify I'm not using the 'guns and armor' website that lusche posted. I'm using the same source as the HVAP round data.

[Caldwell]

The Tiger though was able to penetrate more than its "on paper" strength due to over matching.